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Old November 24th, 2005 #21
JoeSixPack
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Looks like ATF just changed the rules for GA.
http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/10...etter-ffls.pdf
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Old November 25th, 2005 #22
Cowan Huberty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antiochus Epiphanes

there's been quite a bit written about this in the NRA magazine which I have not wasted time reading in years since I caught the whiff of Jews about the place.
The NRA has become infiltrated by the Kikes. It's really a shame..their new president is a Jewess

I'm no longer a member
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Old November 25th, 2005 #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoaxThis
a .308 will take any animal on the North American continent -- four-legged or bipedal.
This is true, indeed. However, before attempting to use this particular round on an Alaskan brown bear, you had better make sure you are an absolutely spectacular shot - or are a looooooong way off. I don't think I'd use anything under a .338; .375's better.
 
Old November 25th, 2005 #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by centerfire
This is true, indeed. However, before attempting to use this particular round on an Alaskan brown bear, you had better make sure you are an absolutely spectacular shot - or are a looooooong way off. I don't think I'd use anything under a .338; .375's better.
A man with a modest AK shooting 7.62x39 out of a 20-round magazine at a bear initially 100 feet away should get the bear, most of the time.
 
Old November 25th, 2005 #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antiochus Epiphanes
it's believed by many dealers that any purchase for another person is a straw man sale, and a violation of law, regardless of whehter the other person is a lawful owner of firearms or not.

My dad bought me a shotgun when I was 17 too, ironically, and yes, many would now regard that sort of transaction as a potential violation of law.
Not so. On the third page of the form ATF F 4473, it says:

1. WARNING - The Federal firearms laws require that the individual filling out this form must be buying the firearm for himself or herself or as a gift. Any individual who is not buying the firearm for himself or herself or as a gift but who completes this form, violates the law. Example: Mr. Smith asks Mr. Jones to purchase a firearm for Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith gives Mr. Jones the money for the firearm. If Mr. Jones fills out this form, he will violate the law. However, if Mr. Jones buys the firearm with his own money to give to Mr. Smith as a birthday present, Mr. Jones may lawfully complete this form. A licensee who knowingly delivers a firearm to an individual who is not buying the firearm for himself or herself or as a gift violates the law by maintaining a false ATF F 4473.

Does anyone know whether the gifts-are-OK part of this form has been superceded?

Jerry Abbott
 
Old November 25th, 2005 #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenab
A man with a modest AK shooting 7.62x39 out of a 20-round magazine at a bear initially 100 feet away should get the bear, most of the time.
Yeah, you're probably right about that. I'd still be scared shitless. Those things can get up to 10' in height, c. 1700 lbs., and the fuckers are fast! You come across one of those critters at it's food source (e.g., dead moose carcass it's protecting) or around cubs, and that thing is going into a blind rage rarely witnessed. That 100' you mentioned would be covered very quickly, and when enraged, they can be unbelievably difficult to stop. I've read reports about how much ammo they can take, and it's often of fairly high caliber. It does depend on the situation, and bears do vary in temperament. Some turn around or drop more quickly than others. I'm thinking of a worst case scenario.
 
Old November 27th, 2005 #27
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I've always been fond of FN FALs and their clones (CETMEs etc.) and would likely get one of them if I wanted to get a rifle.
 
Old November 28th, 2005 #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by centerfire
This is true, indeed. However, before attempting to use this particular round on an Alaskan brown bear, you had better make sure you are an absolutely spectacular shot - or are a looooooong way off. I don't think I'd use anything under a .338; .375's better.
Well-said. I see now why you chose "Centerfire" as a name -- you know wtf you're talking about.

I read an article years ago in a gun rag about just such a hunt. The author using the .06 in this case, was a lifelong hunter and gun enthusiast. He'd hunted "The Big Five" in Africa. On this particular hunt, he was after Kodiak bear specifically (they're the biggest of the browns/grizzlies) and nailed one on a riverbank that weighed in at over 1,600 lbs. His guide, equipped with a .375 H&H was right alongside him, just in case.
 
Old November 28th, 2005 #29
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Well, my post was leading off topic, this thread being about assault weapons. I found it hard to resist, though, when I saw .308 as a round which can take any critter on the continent. It certainly can! The .308 is what I had in my last rifle (Sako 75), and I just couldn't picture myself using that to take one of the big aggressive brownies in AK. Similar comment could possibly be made about one of the giant AK mooses... though, again, depends on the situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoaxThis
He'd hunted "The Big Five" in Africa.
Gosh! < $ > I know this is not a very popular thing with quite a few VNNers, but I sure would love to give that a shot. Long as it's fair game. I sure as hell wouldn't be toatin' a .308 along!
 
Old November 28th, 2005 #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by centerfire


Gosh! < $ > I know this is not a very popular thing with quite a few VNNers, but I sure would love to give that a shot. Long as it's fair game. I sure as hell wouldn't be toatin' a .308 along!
For the leopard (avg. male weighing around 90 lbs.), a .308 would be overkill -- to say the least. On a full-grown male lion I wouldn't know what to use. Elephant, rhino, and cape buffalo you'd need something in the neighborhood of a .412 Rigby or .460 Weatherby.

Although I did read of a professional big-game hunter who killed an African bull elephant with a single shot from -- ready for this? -- a .22 caliber rifle!

Talk about balls.
 
Old November 28th, 2005 #31
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update:

I contacted Ruger over the weekend and was told it would cost $50 (plus S&H) to re-blue my rifle and that it'll take 4-6 weeks to do so.

A couple weeks ago, I took the rifle to my local gun dealer and was told it would cost $130. He also told me that it would take approx. 4-6 weeks to get the job done.

You see what this cocksucker's trying to pull here?
 
Old November 28th, 2005 #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenab
Not so. On the third page of the form ATF F 4473, it says:

1. WARNING - The Federal firearms laws require that the individual filling out this form must be buying the firearm for himself or herself or as a gift. Any individual who is not buying the firearm for himself or herself or as a gift but who completes this form, violates the law. Example: Mr. Smith asks Mr. Jones to purchase a firearm for Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith gives Mr. Jones the money for the firearm. If Mr. Jones fills out this form, he will violate the law. However, if Mr. Jones buys the firearm with his own money to give to Mr. Smith as a birthday present, Mr. Jones may lawfully complete this form. A licensee who knowingly delivers a firearm to an individual who is not buying the firearm for himself or herself or as a gift violates the law by maintaining a false ATF F 4473.

Does anyone know whether the gifts-are-OK part of this form has been superceded?

Jerry Abbott
The law is confusing enough that some dealers will not sell if they think that the sale is for another person they just won't sell it to them. Confusing laws allow for easy entrapment and some dealers just don't want the hassle.
 
Old November 28th, 2005 #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoaxThis
For the leopard (avg. male weighing around 90 lbs.), a .308 would be overkill -- to say the least. On a full-grown male lion I wouldn't know what to use. Elephant, rhino, and cape buffalo you'd need something in the neighborhood of a .412 Rigby or .460 Weatherby.

Although I did read of a professional big-game hunter who killed an African bull elephant with a single shot from -- ready for this? -- a .22 caliber rifle!

Talk about balls.
Expectation on such a trip is that you want trophy quality animals, so average weight is not really what you are considering. Trophy weight male African leopard is, oh, c. 180-220 (huge) lbs. The .308 is enough, I suppose, just depends on how you wish to hunt 'em. I'd prefer to get as close as possible, so a .308 is not an option. Not so much what the animal weighs, rather, what it can do to you and the guide if everything doesn't go perfectly (want to hit 'em hard). You also want to take as few guns as necessary on such a trip. Expensive and cumbersome. A lot of American guys take along something like a .338 WM or .375 HH for medium game and .416 RM to .458 WM for big stuff. Yeah, you can get exotic w/ the doubles and heavier, just talkin' about average stuff. It all depends; fun to shoot the bull about this stuff.

Not to get uh, too technical on you, but you surely mean the .416 Rigby (never heard of the .412), which is what I'd use on big male lion up close. At a distance a .375 is good, maybe .338.

.460 Weatherby ( OUCH!)
Quote:
Although I did read of a professional big-game hunter who killed an African bull elephant with a single shot from -- ready for this? -- a .22 caliber rifle!

Talk about balls.
Yeah, there are several such stories usually involving a native who didn't have anything else, and I'm sure some are true. Through the ear to the brain. Interesting but not at all something a professional would want to do. Would look really bad ethically, and he'd almost surely have his license yanked unless he (for some reason) had no other weapon at disposal.
Quote:
A couple weeks ago, I took the rifle to my local gun dealer and was told it would cost $130. He also told me that it would take approx. 4-6 weeks to get the job done.

You see what this cocksucker's trying to pull here?
Yeah, I hear you. Does he have much competition? I do prefer to support the local smiths (if they're any good), as long as I'm not getting ripped. If the gun doesn't hold a lot of sentimental value, you can do it yourself, heheh. I've watched an old buddy of mine do it, and it's not too difficult for cold blue. Can be a fuckin' mess, though.
 
Old November 28th, 2005 #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by centerfire

Not to get uh, too technical on you, but you surely mean the .416 Rigby (never heard of the .412), which is what I'd use on big male lion up close. At a distance a .375 is good, maybe .338.

.460 Weatherby ( OUCH!)

Yeah, there are several such stories usually involving a native who didn't have anything else, and I'm sure some are true. Through the ear to the brain. Interesting but not at all something a professional would want to do. Would look really bad ethically, and he'd almost surely have his license yanked unless he (for some reason) had no other weapon at disposal.

Yeah, I hear you. Does he have much competition? I do prefer to support the local smiths (if they're any good), as long as I'm not getting ripped. If the gun doesn't hold a lot of sentimental value, you can do it yourself, heheh. I've watched an old buddy of mine do it, and it's not too difficult for cold blue. Can be a fuckin' mess, though.
You're absolutely right, of course. There is no .412, it's .416.

And yes, that's exactly where the guy made the shot on the bull elephant -- through the ear and into the brain.

And no, my local "gunsmith" has no competition whatsoever 'round these parts, hence, his ripoff prices on store goods and services. I only go there for targets, cleaning supplies, etc. Even his ammo is overpriced. He wants $13 for a 50-count box of no-name .45 ACP ammo. Meanwhile, I'm buying Winchester ammo at Wal-Mart for $18 per 100 rd. box.

This guy's a real lollapalooza, let me tell you. No one I've spoken to has much good to say about him. I'd love to support my local dealer, but this prick makes it really hard.

btw -- Re-blue the whole gun by myself?! No way. It takes a certain touch and it's very easy to mess up. I once watched my stepfather fuckup a .22 semi-auto rifle trying to re-blue it. A couple months back, I bought a bottle of "Perma-blue" just to touch-up the barrel tip and outer edges of the cylinder wall on a Charter Arms .38 snubby. It worked, but not all that well. Looking closely at it, you can see where the blueing doesn't quite match the original factory job.

Last edited by Matthaus Hetzenauer; November 28th, 2005 at 01:45 PM.
 
Old November 29th, 2005 #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoaxThis
This guy's a real lollapalooza, let me tell you. No one I've spoken to has much good to say about him. I'd love to support my local dealer, but this prick makes it really hard.
That seems to be a problem in a lot of places. I have just come across a couple good ones wherever I've been. Lot of good ones out there, just depends... whereabouts!

Quote:
btw -- Re-blue the whole gun by myself?! No way. It takes a certain touch and it's very easy to mess up. I once watched my stepfather fuckup a .22 semi-auto rifle trying to re-blue it. A couple months back, I bought a bottle of "Perma-blue" just to touch-up the barrel tip and outer edges of the cylinder wall on a Charter Arms .38 snubby. It worked, but not all that well. Looking closely at it, you can see where the blueing doesn't quite match the original factory job.
Yep, the ole aptitude test. Fortunately, I haven't been too venturesome with my guns but have had some fun repairing some second hand rifles & no real problems.

I know it's your thread, but it's about assaults. I don't know all that much on the tactical side, and some of these guys do. Maybe I'll PM you or start a new thread. Fun stuff about guns. :cheers:
 
Old November 29th, 2005 #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoaxThis
update:

I contacted Ruger over the weekend and was told it would cost $50 (plus S&H) to re-blue my rifle and that it'll take 4-6 weeks to do so.

A couple weeks ago, I took the rifle to my local gun dealer and was told it would cost $130. He also told me that it would take approx. 4-6 weeks to get the job done.

You see what this cocksucker's trying to pull here?
Ruger does great shop work. They are reknowned for customer service.
 
Old November 29th, 2005 #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antiochus Epiphanes
Ruger does great shop work. They are reknowned for customer service.
I've yet to send a gun to a factory for repair, but from what I hear, you're absolutely correct -- Ruger has a rep as being excellent in customer service. After all, it makes great business sense. Fuck me over, and the next gun I buy will be from another manufacturer...

dammit!
 
Old November 29th, 2005 #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by centerfire

I know it's your thread, but it's about assaults. I don't know all that much on the tactical side, and some of these guys do. Maybe I'll PM you or start a new thread. Fun stuff about guns. :cheers:
You're right -- we'll keep the conversation on course: assault weapons only.
 
Old November 29th, 2005 #39
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And here I thought "Alaskan brown bear" was a euphemism for cold-weather niggers.
 
Old November 29th, 2005 #40
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Default AK vs. AR

What is the VNN favorite? AK or AR? They are becoming more common, and cheaper too.

Before I lost all my guns to river pirates, I had a respectable AR that was purchased for $700. These things have the best iron sights I have ever used.
 
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