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Old December 8th, 2003 #41
Antiochus Epiphanes
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Antiochus Epiphanes
Default 45 best

9mm para vs 45acp? Come on. 45 hits hard and the bad guy stops. 9mm is a .38. If you can carry a 45 and shoot it competently, 45 is the way to go. Experts agree. I cite Jeff Cooper, who carries more wieght Shooting competently is the main factor. A hit with a 22lr is better than a miss with a 45. Along the same lines, "greater capacity" of 9mm is irrelevant. Most self defense uses of handguns occur up close, in the dark, and are resolved in less than 10 shots. If you need more than 10 shots for a self defense incident, you aint aiming the goddamned thing, and you probably wont get to number 11 it will be too late.

Would be shooters are advised to skip gun hoarding. If you want to hoard, hoard ammo. When the SHF, guns abound and ammo is in short supply. But better than hoarding, even, is learning to use the arms you've got and practicing regularly. Also, best to do structured practice like IPSC or IDPA instead of plinking.
 
Old December 9th, 2003 #42
Steve B
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by no_nomen
I thought the 'flame wars' were "Everything Else vs. Glock"... ;~))

For anyone looking for a thin, small, very light weight .45 that has far less
perceived recoil than an alloy frame 1911 consider the Glock 36. You can wear
this all day and hardly realise it's there! Find one at a range that will rent it to
you and see if you like it. A couple of extra 6rnd mags in your pocket should
make you feel very comfortable. ;>)) Be sure and save up a few $ and get
Tritium Night Sight installed. Most evil things come out after dark...

btw: If you prefer the feel of rubber grips a good thing to do is look in the
trash behind a bycycle store and get some innertubes the're always throwing
out.Cut into 2"+/- strips, turn 'em inside out and slip on 36 grip. Wonderful!!!
and one innertube will make enough grips for years... for free.

"The new „slim-line" GLOCK 36 with it's 6 rounds magazine
became the first choice for a .45 concealated carry weapon."


Length (slide) 6.77 in.
Height 4.76 in. 121 mm
Width 1.13 in 28.5 mm.
Barrel length 3.78 in. 96 mm
Magazine capacity 6

Mass (weight) Empty without magazine 20.11 oz.

http://www.glock.com/home.htm
http://www.glock.com/_45.htm

Hmmm no_nomen, Tritium night sights on a gun with a 3.78 inch barrel? Isn't that sort of like tits on a bull?
 
Old December 9th, 2003 #43
no_nomen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve B
Hmmm no_nomen, Tritium night sights on a gun with
a 3.78 inch barrel? Isn't that sort of like tits on a bull?
SB Sir,

Since "nasty things come out at night" I find it only logical to equip every "tool" with nigtsights. Otherwise "the boogyman might get me". Nasty things they are too. My mother warned me about them!

Last edited by no_nomen; December 9th, 2003 at 01:50 AM.
 
Old December 10th, 2003 #44
SMG3000
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The next handgun I'm going to get is probably going to be the Glock 21. I want to know- if I want to buy it new, am I supposed to haggle with the seller (the seller would be a franchise outlet, not a mom and pop shop) to get the price down or can they just go without driving me into the poor house?
I bought my revolver without even THINKING about haggling on the price. Jesus!
 
Old December 11th, 2003 #45
no_nomen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMG3000
I want to know- if I want to buy it new, am I supposed to
haggle with the seller (the seller would be a franchise outlet, not a mom and
pop shop) to get the price down
SMG3000,

I suggest you would do well to read the first link below and then
visit the 2nd. Ask many .45 Glock owners at once. You may be
delighted w/ what you learn there.

http://www.vnnforum.com/showthread.php?p=2966#post2966

The Big Dawgs Club - This is a forum for those GT'ers that like that ultimate Glock, the G-30.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=32

.
 
Old December 12th, 2003 #46
SMG3000
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I see the Glock 30 has a grip that is not as short as the Glock.com picture makes it out to be! Thats good because what I really want is a pistol that has a full-on grip.
About the "ported" barrels. Since these use the gas of the discharging cartridge to stablize the gun quicker, doesnt that mean the round has less pressure propelling it (meaning it doesnt travel to its target as fast)?
 
Old December 12th, 2003 #47
no_nomen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMG3000
Thats good because what I really want is a pistol that has a full-on grip.

About the "ported" barrels...?
SMG,

If the 30 w/ the stock 10 rnd mag is a little too short for you
add a Scherer Grip Extension to your mags.

See attachment at bottom.

............

Visit:
http://glockmeister.com/catalog/pro...90d3264346733bf

Are you refering to the Compensated Barrels? If so, forget it.
If you want a project pistol to modify and 'fix up' pick up a 1911.

A 'stock' 30 right out of the box needs only one addition.
NightSights (Tritium-glow in the dark) are mandatory! $65-80
+ installation will get you fixed right up.

............
Other brands are fine as well, other sellers too.

OH! I see some on sale right now for $50 damn good deal!
http://www.topglock.com/catalog/sights.htm

Notice: The "Hi-Vis LitePipe" sights shown on this page are not
"glow in the dark" Night Sights.

Visit http://www.glocktalk.com and you'll learn a lot quick!

.
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Last edited by no_nomen; December 12th, 2003 at 02:13 AM.
 
Old December 13th, 2003 #48
Bei zhidov
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Bei zhidov
Default Not exactly about handguns

2 best pieces for urban warfare I ever used were VSS Vintorez and MN-23, but for battlefield conditions - dirt, rain, snow, heat, cold, too tired to clean - they are too fragile. SVD has no competition here.
 
Old December 15th, 2003 #49
SMG3000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bei zhidov
2 best pieces for urban warfare I ever used were VSS Vintorez and MN-23, but for battlefield conditions - dirt, rain, snow, heat, cold, too tired to clean - they are too fragile. SVD has no competition here.
I found these weapons you mention at http://www.doa-aa.com/weapons3.htm and http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn18-e.htm
I hate all these firearm restrictions because I think I'd be happy with any of them.
 
Old December 16th, 2003 #50
no_nomen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMG3000
I hate all these firearm restrictions because
I think I'd be happy with any of them.
If you really want to have 'some fun' how about:
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Old December 17th, 2003 #51
SMG3000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no_nomen
If you really want to have 'some fun' how about:
Where and how do you get such a thing!? That looks like it could take down pesky satellites.
 
Old December 17th, 2003 #52
no_nomen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMG3000
Where and how do you get such a thing!?
A google search turned up 320+ hits for Lahti 20mm.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&i...8&q=LAHTI+20MM

http://www.ohioordnanceworks.com/lahti/l.htm

Have fun!

Last edited by no_nomen; December 17th, 2003 at 04:25 PM.
 
Old December 17th, 2003 #53
MadScienceType
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Hmmm. $8500 actually isn't bad for a Lahti. Of course you gotta bed permission from the gummint to own a "destructive device" and all, not to mention find ammo for it. I guess you could reload, but I think finding dies would be a bitch!

While we're wishing, I'd like a Solothurn 20mm.


Swiss craftsmanship at its finest, baby!
 
Old December 17th, 2003 #54
Gott
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadScienceType
Hmmm. $8500 actually isn't bad for a Lahti. Of course you gotta bed permission from the gummint to own a "destructive device" and all, not to mention find ammo for it. I guess you could reload, but I think finding dies would be a bitch!

While we're wishing, I'd like a Solothurn 20mm.


Swiss craftsmanship at its finest, baby!

Why don't you guys stop kidding around and just go get yourself an 88.
 
Old December 17th, 2003 #55
no_nomen
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.

Santa's coming !

And guess what he has hitched to his sleigh !

quad 50mm BMG
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Old December 31st, 2003 #56
T.Garrett
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Default Hello there

Greetz

Here's a nice selection of Vietnam era toyz displayed that I found on the web he he he ...enjoy, its from an old photo, so resolution is not good but look at the nice variety ... Happy New Year Gentlemen

T.Garrett
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Old December 31st, 2003 #57
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[QUOTE=SMG3000]I own a single firearm, a .38 special revolver with five chambers.... Quote)



Quote:
I own a single firearm, a .38 special revolver with five chambers. I bought it new and have outfitted it with various ammo.
The guy at a local gun range seemed to know the ins and outs of guns and ammo and he stated that a 9mm can serve as well as a .45 for the simple fact that today's ammo evens out the performance issue.

PB:
The 38 is obviously the most reliable, having countless less moving parts. This should only be used as a back-up weapon in a tight situation, if you already have an automatic.
I’ve last owned an automatic about 20 years ago, so I don’t know what technical advances have been performed on the 45’s design. Back then, you couldn’t hit a broad side of the Queen Mary with it.
The 9mm Belgian-made “Browning” used to be standard police issue, back then, for several gööd reasons. The projectile itself is almost identicle in size to the 38 meaning that the 9mm had ample stopping power. The weapon itself was accurate at the same time almost recoil-free. Facit: you could get more direct hits from the 9mm in the same time-span than you would from the 38 and this hasn’t to do with the 14 round capacity before changing the clip.
If I had to go into a ghetto in Rio de Janiero to shoot it out with a drug cartel, I’d rely on the 9mm. It would be unthinkable to go in with a 45

Quote:
Considering that most 9mm handguns are less pricey than .45 calibers, I was very interested in this claim. Frankly price IS a big issue with me. I was actually looking at this .45: http://www.taurususa.com/products/p...category=Pistol
which seems like a good deal.
Also how about this 9mm http://www.taurususa.com/products/p...category=Pistol

PB:
I’ll check these sites out later, but my 1st choice is the 9mm, at the moment. Back then, u could get a 9mm Browning from a biker for 100$, of course with a dubious history

Quote:
Again, price is a big consideration. If I use those expensive MagSafe pre-fragmented ammo in the 9mm, that should be a pretty damn powerful weapon. According to the MagSafe company, the .38 pre-fragmented travel at 1,800 feet per second, with a 469 ft-lbs impact force. It claims to have a deadlier wound channel than any .40 cal JHP ammo you can buy. The larger caliber rounds are respectively more powerful.

PB:
There u go, u’ve just answered your own question. Why would anybody want a 45, in this case. It puzzles me that their more expensive. What do you intend on doing with this weapon, anyway? Shoot holes thru the Queen Mary’s engine block?

Quote:
Another consideration is that I do not have a distance weapon. At the local gun shop I can get a used AK-47 for about 525.

PB:
Isn’t this the “Kalisznikov”?! If so, this is anything but a distance weapon. You could almost shoot yourself with it. The only thing gööd about this weapon is it’s reliability.
You could get this weapon at a fraction of this unbelievable price by dealing with a serviceman coming home from Iraq. There should be an ample amount of these souvenirs

Quote:
What am I mostly likely to need- a backup handgun …

PB:
Keep the 38 for this purpose

Distribute to all pit bull owning Brits:
http://www.wspa.org.uk/index.php?page=40
 
Old December 31st, 2003 #58
SMG3000
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[QUOTE=Paki Baiter]
Quote:
Originally Posted by SMG3000
I own a single firearm, a .38 special revolver with five chambers.... Quote)



Quote:
I own a single firearm, a .38 special revolver with five chambers. I bought it new and have outfitted it with various ammo.
The guy at a local gun range seemed to know the ins and outs of guns and ammo and he stated that a 9mm can serve as well as a .45 for the simple fact that today's ammo evens out the performance issue.

PB:
The 38 is obviously the most reliable, having countless less moving parts. This should only be used as a back-up weapon in a tight situation, if you already have an automatic.
I’ve last owned an automatic about 20 years ago, so I don’t know what technical advances have been performed on the 45’s design. Back then, you couldn’t hit a broad side of the Queen Mary with it.
The 9mm Belgian-made “Browning” used to be standard police issue, back then, for several gööd reasons. The projectile itself is almost identicle in size to the 38 meaning that the 9mm had ample stopping power. The weapon itself was accurate at the same time almost recoil-free. Facit: you could get more direct hits from the 9mm in the same time-span than you would from the 38 and this hasn’t to do with the 14 round capacity before changing the clip.
If I had to go into a ghetto in Rio de Janiero to shoot it out with a drug cartel, I’d rely on the 9mm. It would be unthinkable to go in with a 45

Quote:
Considering that most 9mm handguns are less pricey than .45 calibers, I was very interested in this claim. Frankly price IS a big issue with me. I was actually looking at this .45: http://www.taurususa.com/products/p...category=Pistol
which seems like a good deal.
Also how about this 9mm http://www.taurususa.com/products/p...category=Pistol

PB:
I’ll check these sites out later, but my 1st choice is the 9mm, at the moment. Back then, u could get a 9mm Browning from a biker for 100$, of course with a dubious history

Quote:
Again, price is a big consideration. If I use those expensive MagSafe pre-fragmented ammo in the 9mm, that should be a pretty damn powerful weapon. According to the MagSafe company, the .38 pre-fragmented travel at 1,800 feet per second, with a 469 ft-lbs impact force. It claims to have a deadlier wound channel than any .40 cal JHP ammo you can buy. The larger caliber rounds are respectively more powerful.

PB:
There u go, u’ve just answered your own question. Why would anybody want a 45, in this case. It puzzles me that their more expensive. What do you intend on doing with this weapon, anyway? Shoot holes thru the Queen Mary’s engine block?

Quote:
Another consideration is that I do not have a distance weapon. At the local gun shop I can get a used AK-47 for about 525.

PB:
Isn’t this the “Kalisznikov”?! If so, this is anything but a distance weapon. You could almost shoot yourself with it. The only thing gööd about this weapon is it’s reliability.
You could get this weapon at a fraction of this unbelievable price by dealing with a serviceman coming home from Iraq. There should be an ample amount of these souvenirs

Quote:
What am I mostly likely to need- a backup handgun …

PB:
Keep the 38 for this purpose

Distribute to all pit bull owning Brits:
http://www.wspa.org.uk/index.php?page=40
Well, I was thinking the revolver should be the primary weapon. That way, the first weapon I pull out is very likely to fire without issue (unless I am fool enough to use Fiocchi ammo which has such hard primers they will usually not be fired by the firing pin in my .38!).
Then, after definitely being able to shoot and having run out of bullets and taken cover, I could pull my semi-auto pistol and have lots of rounds in case of a real gun battle.
Thats just the idea I have, I really don't know the tactical soundness of that approach.

I have heard that police have found the .45 to be the best stopper and then others say its known as a "one-shot stop" ammo. I figure that since the limit is 10 rounds for a pistol magazine, it might as well be the more devistating .45 caliber. And thats what I heard- that the .45 makes the biggest "mess" and that 9mm often just goes through the target, allowing them to get close enough to stab, for example.
Now, if I can get a 9mm pistol with a magazine holding 16 rounds (and doesnt extend past the grip's length) I would be more inclined to it, but I don't know if thats affordable? I thought all 9mm pistols you could buy were limited to accepting only 10-round magazines (not counting the magazines that extend past the grip, which I don't think I like)?

Your right about the MagSafes. I don't think anyone else commented on them specifically. I can't understand why its so difficult for people to settle on one caliber and not drive me insane
So maybe I should get a 9mm with MagSafe ammo, which would take care (I suppose) of the stopping-power problem. A 9mm MagSafe bullet fragments and would not simply go through the target. Hah!

The AK-47 is not a distance weapon? That sucks. I imagine the most likely real-world use in my situation would be repelling Blacks/Puerto Ricans from my residence and immediate surroundings, which includes those shooting at me from behind cars, SUVs, homes and the corners of homes and down block-long streets. Is the AK-47 good for that?
I don't know if I'd have much time to reload the magazines, so I want large capacity ones. Thats why I don't want a bolt-action rifle.

I have found AK-47 clones for 350 in very good condition at places like these:

http://www.gunbroker.com/?AID=5377676&PID=812222

Maybe I'll think to escape somewheres before it gets down to house-to-house fighting, in which case I'd want a really long distance rifle for hunting?

I have no plans against the Queen Mary, I swear.

Last edited by SMG3000; December 31st, 2003 at 11:35 PM.
 
Old January 1st, 2004 #59
Georgie
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Why not get a .44 magnum? It'll put someone down and keep him there. Guaranteed. LOL
 
Old January 1st, 2004 #60
Der Führer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgie
Why not get a .44 magnum? It'll put someone down and keep him there. Guaranteed. LOL

DF:
Better to kill a mosquito with a sawed off shotgun rather than kill a horse with a fly swatter
 
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