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Old October 4th, 2009 #41
Bev
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This music and images that people are finding dangerous or subversive messages in, is it very different to Mozart, Verdi, Shakespeare, Beowulf, Aeschylus or even Homer? It's easier to digest, less intellectually challenging, and maybe more subtle, but does it express different emotions, or a different response to those emotions? Or is it the subtlety, the unstated 'suggestion' that people find disturbing?
For me, it's the images in the videos. Maybe blokes are different, but when girls split up with their loved ones, they watch love songs like these and maybe have a glass of wine or two, anything that helps you wallow in your misery a bit. Then when they are drunk and lonely and had it reinforced (by these songs) that they are alone they see these suggestive images.

It's not the music or the lyrics at all for me. It's the images and what they (might be) subconsciously suggesting. Mozart et al didn't have pop videos.
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Old October 4th, 2009 #42
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It's meant for those who are emotionally weak. It’s like the sick films are meant for those sick people who will react to it. Not everyone will be affected by music or relationship breakdowns. However, some people are easily manipulated by this stuff.
Your right which is why I think "the movement" or at least serious people need to concentrate on those who are not so predisposed towards being influenced by such music.I think it is going to be hard enough to create an effective "movement" without tackling pop music specifically as the cause of our misfortune as it were
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Old October 4th, 2009 #43
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I have read that the Fuhrer himself is said to have wept openly at certain operatic performances.
Yes, but that is not the same. One can be over - joyed at the marvel of something it makes one cry.
 
Old October 4th, 2009 #44
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Your right which is why I think "the movement" or at least serious people need to concentrate on those who are not so predisposed towards being influenced by such music.I think it is going to be hard enough to create an effective "movement" without tackling pop music specifically as the cause of our misfortune as it were
Hitler was moved by music.
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Old October 4th, 2009 #45
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Yes, but that is not the same. One can be over - joyed at the marvel of something it makes one cry.
Not all tears are those of joy and not all operas are happy, there are deeply saddening undertones in some. Mussolini was also a tearful fan of opera.
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Old October 4th, 2009 #46
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Hitler was moved by music.
This is a PM I got from this cunt

I wouldn't go down the porno route Andy. A certain female we both know know told me of your webcam antics. 'Wanna get rude?'. Post an apology or I go public pubic bonce.
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Old October 4th, 2009 #47
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This is a PM I got from this cunt

I wouldn't go down the porno route Andy. A certain female we both know know told me of your webcam antics. 'Wanna get rude?'. Post an apology or I go public pubic bonce.
Webcam flasher.
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Old October 4th, 2009 #48
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Yes, but that is not the same. One can be over - joyed at the marvel of something it makes one cry.
And that's where I'm struggling. That's what Nothing Else Matters does to me. Not every time, but when I saw Metallica sing it live it did and also if I've had a drink, it does. Why does my brain react like this to this song and yours (or someone else's) reacts like it to opera or a stunningly executed symphony?
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Old October 4th, 2009 #49
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Webcam flasher.
Who you calling a nonce yer bald cockney freak. Wanna get rude yer lonely webcam flasher.
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Old October 4th, 2009 #50
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And that's where I'm struggling. That's what Nothing Else Matters does to me. Not every time, but when I saw Metallica sing it live it did and also if I've had a drink, it does. Why does my brain react like this to this song and yours (or someone else's) reacts like it to opera or a stunningly executed symphony?

Not sure on that?
 
Old October 4th, 2009 #51
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And that's where I'm struggling. That's what Nothing Else Matters does to me. Not every time, but when I saw Metallica sing it live it did and also if I've had a drink, it does. Why does my brain react like this to this song and yours (or someone else's) reacts like it to opera or a stunningly executed symphony?
That's a good question. There seems to be a different message sent out by each genre these days, which in turn is assigned a specific target audience, i.e pussycat dolls are aimed at young girls and promote third wave feminism, rap is aimed at teenage lads and carries messages of violence, drug use etc. There are cross overs such as feminsed boy bands targeting young females, but young men see the attention they receive from girls and strive to copy the feminsed image. Pitching them at lads initially would have had no result, but lads do now listen to some of the later ones such as Blue, Five, etc as they have become more feminised.
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Old October 4th, 2009 #52
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And that's where I'm struggling. That's what Nothing Else Matters does to me. Not every time, but when I saw Metallica sing it live it did and also if I've had a drink, it does. Why does my brain react like this to this song and yours (or someone else's) reacts like it to opera or a stunningly executed symphony?
The 'Opera' of the song is what you take from the words the 'symphony' is the feel of the music to what you are feeling on the inside. Sometimes you can listen to a song and not particularly enoy it or the words are presented in a manner that doesn't necessarly express itself in the way you would but there may be a movement that catches your ear, a sound, an irregular beat, an off beat a chord.

As Mr Shakespeare said "....if music be the food of love, play on...".
 
Old October 4th, 2009 #53
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Well, they either copy the feminised image, or the macho image of the black music genre. The music channels on Sky fill me with absolute horror. Teenagers watch these channels for hours at a time filling their heads with rubbish.

Music affects people deeply, I love listening to music, thats why I know music with the wrong message, which is 99% of it, is very very destructive for our race.
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Old October 4th, 2009 #54
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Music was quite healthy in Shakespeare's day. I wonder what he'd think if he set is eyes on our modern day music?
 
Old October 4th, 2009 #55
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Well, they either copy the feminised image, or the macho image of the black music genre. The music channels on Sky fill me with absolute horror. Teenagers watch these channels for hours at a time filling their heads with rubbish.

Music affects people deeply, I love listening to music, thats why I know music with the wrong message, which is 99% of it, is very very destructive for our race.
Does anyone remember when MTV was the only channel on Sky TV? Now, there are about a dozen or so. And the Rick Rubin's of this world are behind it. All in accordance with the plans formulated at the Frankfurt School.
 
Old October 4th, 2009 #56
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I don’t think people should hurt other people, and I don’t think that the influence of music is such that it does. I’ve been involved with some very negative records that I’m proud of. I think that those records resonate with people who need to hear that energy, and I know that music doesn’t cause people to go out and do bad things. I think if anything, it defuses them. There are a lot of people out there who are angry, and there’s no reason that angry people can’t be entertained as well as others. I think it’s fine, I think it’s a service. I think everybody should get to enjoy whatever it is that resonates with them.

Taken from the last part of interview.


http://www.digitalprosound.com/Featu.../RickRubin.htm

Last edited by Joe Owens; October 4th, 2009 at 02:49 PM. Reason: update
 
Old October 4th, 2009 #57
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That's a good question. There seems to be a different message sent out by each genre these days, which in turn is assigned a specific target audience, i.e pussycat dolls are aimed at young girls and promote third wave feminism, rap is aimed at teenage lads and carries messages of violence, drug use etc. There are cross overs such as feminsed boy bands targeting young females, but young men see the attention they receive from girls and strive to copy the feminsed image. Pitching them at lads initially would have had no result, but lads do now listen to some of the later ones such as Blue, Five, etc as they have become more feminised.
I get that, but I'm still struggling with it. I'm not defending Metallica as a fan here but trying to be a dispassionate observer. Their songs are good clean songs. "Master of Puppets" is about the evils of drugs. "One" is about war, or more specifically, landmines. Joe says Nothing Else Matters is a love song, I say it's about James himself - but whichever - it's still a clean song.

I'm struggling to see who they are aimed at and why. I know Europe, Def Leppard et al are aimed at feminising men with the long hair and prancy dancing and I know it's just an image. But the original two of Metallica have short hair and they're masculine men. So that can't be it.


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The 'Opera' of the song is what you take from the words the 'symphony' is the feel of the music to what you are feeling on the inside. Sometimes you can listen to a song and not particularly enoy it or the words are presented in a manner that doesn't necessarly express itself in the way you would but there may be a movement that catches your ear, a sound, an irregular beat, an off beat a chord.

As Mr Shakespeare said "....if music be the food of love, play on...".
That strikes a note (pardon the pun) because I do like Cry for the Indians - not the sentiment or the fact that Anthrax's singer is half jew before anyone says it but the catchy chorus melody - just the way the notes are arranged.

But it still doesn't explain why my brain likes Metallica and yours likes Showaddwaddy or Joe's likes opera or whatever.
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Old October 4th, 2009 #58
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I get that, but I'm still struggling with it. I'm not defending Metallica as a fan here but trying to be a dispassionate observer. Their songs are good clean songs. "Master of Puppets" is about the evils of drugs. "One" is about war, or more specifically, landmines. Joe says Nothing Else Matters is a love song, I say it's about James himself - but whichever - it's still a clean song.

I'm struggling to see who they are aimed at and why. I know Europe, Def Leppard et al are aimed at feminising men with the long hair and prancy dancing and I know it's just an image. But the original two of Metallica have short hair and they're masculine men. So that can't be it.
With Metallica its the loud unnatural tones in the music that are negative. The behavior of the crowd, moshing and general chaos, that is another thing the Frankfurt School attacked, order and discipline. Its the music that creates the behavior, people never moshed at operas.

If you look back to NS Germany, order and discipline were present through out the country, that is what makes up a proper civilization. The Frankfurt School knew this, so they have gone about destroying it within us.
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Old October 4th, 2009 #59
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I get that, but I'm still struggling with it. I'm not defending Metallica as a fan here but trying to be a dispassionate observer. Their songs are good clean songs. "Master of Puppets" is about the evils of drugs. "One" is about war, or more specifically, landmines. Joe says Nothing Else Matters is a love song, I say it's about James himself - but whichever - it's still a clean song.

I'm struggling to see who they are aimed at and why. I know Europe, Def Leppard et al are aimed at feminising men with the long hair and prancy dancing and I know it's just an image. But the original two of Metallica have short hair and they're masculine men. So that can't be it.




That strikes a note (pardon the pun) because I do like Cry for the Indians - not the sentiment or the fact that Anthrax's singer is half jew before anyone says it but the catchy chorus melody - just the way the notes are arranged.

But it still doesn't explain why my brain likes Metallica and yours likes Showaddwaddy or Joe's likes opera or whatever.

No problem mate I'll try and explain what I think you want to know in laymans terms.

For the sake of argument we might as well use a song like 'Nothing Else Matters'.

Nothing Else Matters (NEM) may have a familiar sound, thats because Beethoven used basically the same technique in 'Moonlight Sonata', probably one of the greatest and dramatics pieces ever written, a tune that (I feel) can leave the listener to their own imagination when listening to it because apart from the actual music the composer has only given us 'Moonlight Sonata' to work with, that alone instills a feeling of solitude and a time for reflection and deep thoughts.

Now take a listen to NEM played on the piano (despite a couple of bum notes).....



Now bearing that in mind the above piece is played in 'D Minor', a note that is famously used in 'sad' songs or indeed songs and music of the heart.

Other great composers of who we must all thank for the use of D Minor are Bach who wrote the whole of The Art Of Fugue in it, Beethoven I beleive also wrote Symphony #9 in the same key infact to save me the hassle of looking I'm sure if you did a search you will see how much D Minor is used and universally appreciated.

So my diagnosis is, you probably enjoy D Minor and I reccomend you check out what key other music you like is played in, you will probably find a pattern in your listening habits.
 
Old October 4th, 2009 #60
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Could somebody please compile a list of music that is acceptable, thanks
 
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