Best And Most Reliable AK For Civilian Use?

What's the best and most reliable AK out there right now, in you're opinion? From what country, etc etc

[Sean Martin]

The Romanian SAR 1 is the best hands down. $300 and comes standard with a side scope mount. It is accurate heavy made and has a steel but plate. The stock is hollow for storing cleaning kits and such also.

You can also get a SAR 2 in the 223 caliber if the 7.62x39 is not your thing. But at $79.00 for a case (1,000 rounds) I can’t see getting anything else.

Our local gun store sells them like hot cakes. I have a friend that has both and he has never had a single complaint out of either.

The Chinese ones are nice but to expensive in their banned state. People will send you after a Russian AK but for the price they are simply not worth the extra cash. The Yugoslav AK’S (madi’s) are also not worth the price, as they are inferior to the Romanian.

For the Money the Romanian SAR 1 is the only way to go.





Here is a great resource on various AK's.
http://www.ak-47.net/ak47/


Here is a basic price guide to give you an idea.
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/rifles/ak47/ak47.html


$789.00 for this baby.

[Sean Martin]

$269.00 for this one.

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/prog...d.asp?Prodid=4


$639.00 for the Russian. You can get 2 of the others and a case of ammo for the cost of one Russian.

[Steve B]

I'm not that familar with AK's but from reading what Sean posted the Polytech legend is the best AK and the most expensive at $1000-1500.

When I was in ZOGs army we used the M-16A1 and I thought it was a piece of shit! Constantly jamming and the 5.56mm didn't have enough stopping power for my tastes and is nothing more than a varmint round IMO. The AK was much better I am told and used a 7.62 round.

Some of the older Viet Nam vets would tell me how great the the Springfield M14 was and that is the best battle rifle ever made!(as opposed to a spray and pray assault rifle like the AK or M-16) "Huck a scope on it, and you can shoot the apple of a homo's head at 250 yards away..... it is 308/762mm and has awsome stopping power. It was a reliable and powerful weapon, often favored by users for high lethality, long range and good penetration."


Springfield Armory makes a copy of the M-14 called the M1A and is so well made that it is known as the M-14 "perfected". Here’s an example, topped with a nice piece of glass.


The only problem with the M1A is it's price. $1500 and up depending on model. But if you can afford it there is nothing better.
http://www.springfield-armory.com/pr...m1a-stan.shtml

[Sean Martin]

That is not only a sweet weapon but a superior one also. However not much for home defense, especially if you have a neighbor within a mile.

Think about this though for the price of that one gun you can buy a good used Savage 308 (I saw two 308’s last week with scopes for under $300 each) an M-1 Garande, and a Romanian AK-47. And then enough to buy a thousand rounds for each and have some change left over to buy a glock.

BTW they make a tankers model M-14 in 30-06. If I was going to buy I would buy that one.

At 500 yards you can hit a man sized target 4 out of 5 times with Iron sites.

Originally Posted by Steve B

Springfield Armory makes a copy of the M-14 called the M1A and is so well made that it is known as the M-14 "perfected".

[Subrosa]

Originally Posted by Doppelhaken

BTW, I know a ZOG warrior who was wounded in the shoulder from an AK-47 round, but he said he'd rather get hit with the AK round than the AR-15/M-16/M-4 round any day.

I would agree with that. I read some reports from the early days of "Nam when they were "live" testing the .223 out in the field and it was pretty gruesome. I don't think you'd want to get hit with a highpowered .22 with that kinda spin.

If you want to shoot .223 a mini-14 is a better choice. I've never owned one but I've been to shooting matches with both the AR and the Mini and I never saw the mini jam.

[Antiochus Epiphanes]

Mini's bolt looks a lot like the garand or m14 bolt. They may be sturdier than ar 15s but parts and supply especially of magazines can be a problem. you dont want the aftermarket mags for this weapon, you want rugers. and ruger stopped making 30s for civilian sale a while ago and hasnt fired it back up as far as I know. correct me if I'm wrong about this. Hicap ruger factory mags for the mini are expensive.

[Steve B]

Originally Posted by Doppelhaken

BTW, I know a ZOG warrior who was wounded in the shoulder from an AK-47 round, but he said he'd rather get hit with the AK round than the AR-15/M-16/M-4 round any day.

Agreed! The M-16/AR-15, 5.56 round is a high velocity bullet that when hits a human flesh target, without any interference, starts to "tumble". That is, they they tend to veer in strange directions, the laws of physics in command, causing much more damage than going straight through.

I remember Viet Vets telling me about shooting NVA in the stomach and the M-16 round going through the mid-section and coming out the top of the head. I have no personal knowledge of this but I have know doubt that it happened. A small projectile at high velocity hits something hard such as a bone and it skips off or ricoches who knows where.

Basically, the warp speed 5.56 round causes big time fractal wounds, assuming there is nothing between you and the human target. In a combat situation, I wish you the best of straight line luck!

The 7.62x51 mm on the other hand goes through tree trunks, sand bags, etc and will still kill you dead! Tell you what, Doppel. You take the AR-15/M-16, 5.56 and I'll take the M-14, AK or the Browning BAR 30.06 and lets see who comes out on top in a firefight!

[Steve B]

Originally Posted by Doppelhaken

Yeah, except the AK round is 7.62 X 39, 7.62 X 51 NATO (.308 Win) is much more powerful and accurate, with a range up to 800 meters. As in my Rem 700 PSS

Does Remington still sell the 700 PSS?

Originally Posted by Steve B

Agreed! The M-16/AR-15, 5.56 round is a high velocity bullet that when hits a human flesh target, without any interference, starts to "tumble". That is, they they tend to veer in strange directions, the laws of physics in command, causing much more damage than going straight through.

Dude, yeah that's true about the ol' M16A1. It had a barrel twist of 1 in 12 and when combined with the ol' 55gr. M193 5.56mm ball cartridge it had a tendency to tumble on impact with a soft target like, for example, some Gook.

Dude, but the M16A2 of course has a much tighter barrel twist of 1 in 7. This was done in order to like stabilize the heaver 62 gr. M855 5.56mm NATO cartridge. Dude this combination no longer causes the round to tumble. Instead, it causes the round to violently fragment on impact with a soft target like, for example, some Aye-rab.

[Antiochus Epiphanes]

yes just dont buy a chink one. dont buy any chink gun. chinks have mastered the art of making cheap toys for walmart but in gun factories they still turn out non-standardized parts for export. took down two chink sks for fun once and tried to swap out the gas tubes and they were like 2 mm longer on one than the other. for example. plus old chink m-14 receivers had soft metal which was a safety hazard. chink made = junk. buy russian, bulgarian, romanian. maadi is egyptian and they are good too but they are usually painted as opposed to blued. like a suckey limey piece. LOL

[Sean Martin]

I don’t know if you have ever had this experience but the wood on Chinese guns is pure garbage. I took one down once for someone that wanted me to refinish his SKS stock. It looked good except it had a few nicks in it and a shoddy varnish job. So I was going to strip it and fill the nicks.

When I started to sand the thing it cracked and chipped. The wood splintered everywhere I sanded it. Finally the stock broke. I have done this type of work to several cheap stocks and have never seen a stock break while sanding it.

Finally he wound up buying a plastic stock for his gun. If you buy a Chinese made gun, I highly recommend buying a plastic aftermarket stock ASAP.

I have seen several Chinese stocks and everyone I have seen was warped. I don’t know what type of wood they use but the stocks actually warped during shipping.

Originally Posted by Antiochus Epiphanes

for example. plus old chink m-14 receivers had soft metal which was a safety hazard. chink made = junk.

[Antiochus Epiphanes]

Originally Posted by sean(doc)martin

I don’t know if you have ever had this experience but the wood on Chinese guns is pure garbage. .......

No I dont waste 2 seconds on Chink junk. I also dont do work on other people's stuff. If you do than hope you're in compliance with all applicable firearms laws and regulations. We dont want "Sean" to end up like "Randy Weaver"

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/statelaws/22edition.htm

ChiCom AKs are not as well crafted as European models that is true.
The Bulgarian model had a milled receiver but sported a compensator which increases the report. The ChiCom, as well as Russian later models, have stamped receivers but they last longer than most people can afford ammo to shoot through them.

[Subrosa]

Whatever you have, shoot Russian or eastbloc ammo though them. Everytime I use American 7.62x39 I get fliers all over the place. The Russian steel case seems to work the best, even if you can't reload them.

That's been my experience anyway, with the AK or the SKS.

[Sean Martin]

Thanks for the tip. BUt I don't do any Mods for that I send them to a gunsmith. I haven't done anything like that in about 10 years BTW. Then I only sanded down a wooden stock and put Linseed oil on it instead of varnish. As far as I know there is no law against it, however I stopped things like that even small things like that for friends.

Originally Posted by Antiochus Epiphanes

No I dont waste 2 seconds on Chink junk. I also dont do work on other people's stuff. If you do than hope you're in compliance with all applicable firearms laws and regulations. We dont want "Sean" to end up like "Randy Weaver"

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/statelaws/22edition.htm

Originally Posted by Doppelhaken

The Romanian SAR 1 is a very good gun. The thing to remember about AKs is that they are inherently cheap guns. Do not spend more than $350 for one under any circumstances. An expensive AK is like a customized plunger; your performance gains above the basic model will not be discernable. I remember the first time I shot one, discovering the safety was merely a big piece of hinged metal that blocked the bolt. Just a stamped piece of shit, not terribly accurate, but that piece of shit will shoot when no other gun will.

Well Steve B and Doppelhaken both make good points. They aren't that accurate but they are supposedly more reliable than the AR15. I think it's it better to have both, just in case. I was going to buy the Vector Classic AK47. I don't mind if I have to pay an extra couple hundred bucks.

Thanks for those links, Sean. Good and informative thread.

[Subrosa]

They aren't designed to be used at more than a couple hundred yards. The AK actually gets it's design inspiration from a German WWII gun, I forget which.

Hehe I hear people saying the AK isn't that accurate, and I tell them to go out there about 150 yards and let me check out if that is true. no takers yet

Just get you a .22 pistol and if you ever need an M16, you can relieve someone of theirs

[grep14w]

Originally Posted by Doppelhaken

The Sturmgewehr 44? Don't let little Kalashnikov hear you say that. Now that he's dead it shouldn't be a problem, but he would get hot when that was mentioned!

Conceptually, the Russians got the idea for the AK series from the German sturmgewehr: selective fire rifle with large capacity magazine firing a shortened, reduced power rifle cartridge.

So, yes, the design of the AK series is not a copy of the sturmgewehr, but the concept is. It was designed to meet the same military requirements, and it was the Germans who came up with those military requirements.

If Germany had survived WWII, we'd probably be seeing Sturmgewehr 44 derivatives all over the planet, much as we see AK derivatives today.