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Old August 10th, 2018 #2
ColdFire
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Finally a movie about the resistance of freeing Mother Russia from the Tatar yoke . .


About time . .

Hope this movie won't be deemed 'racist' . .

By the way , when I started watching the trailer I thought that might be a Russian version of 'Lord Of The Rings' . .


Some similarities though . . The word for the bad guys in LOTR , 'orcs' , derives from the word 'orcus' = 'demon' . .

The Russian word 'tatarus' , after which they they named the Mongols ( 'tatars' ) translates as 'hell'. . They believed the Mongols to be from hell. .




Which somehow wasn't a surprise when you look at especially the mentality of the Mongols . .

An Italian traveller during the Middle Ages who got to know the Mongols , wrote : "It is their aim to sujugate the entire world under their yoke and they have that assignment from Genghis Khan . . Their emperor subscribes all his letter with 'God reigns in Heaven and Genghis Khan over the Earth' . ." . .

Also , they had a barbaric 'victory' ritual . .

The Mongols , in order to celebrate their victory , would build up banquet carouse made out of wood and its floor was supposed to be held up by the backs of their victims . .

After the Mongols took place their victims under them would eventually be smashed . .

Savage people . .



Here is a whole thread I have dedicated to them . .

https://vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=550278
 
Old August 10th, 2018 #3
Alex Him
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdFire View Post
The Russian word 'tatarus' , after which they they named the Mongols ( 'tatars' ) translates as 'hell'. . They believed the Mongols to be from hell. .
In Russian there is no word "татарус"

And in Russian, hell is "ад".

But the fact that the Russians as heirs of the Eastern Roman Empire knew about the Greek Tartarus - Τάρταρος this is true.
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Old August 11th, 2018 #4
ColdFire
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Originally Posted by Alex Him View Post
In Russian there is no word "татарус"

And in Russian, hell is "ад".

But the fact that the Russians as heirs of the Eastern Roman Empire knew about the Greek Tartarus - Τάρταρος this is true.
Are you sure that word couldn't be old Russian ?

Because I remember reading this statement in a history book years ago . .

The Russian alphabet sure is influenced by Greek ( named 'cyrillic' after a Greek missonary called 'Cyrill' ) but TBH I wouldn't go so far as to call Russians the heirs of East Rome ( Constantinople ) . . Yes , the people of Byzantium ( Constantinople ) used that script yet where it once was today is Turkey . .




Yes, the Orthodox Church of Greece is central to Russia ( hence also the development of the cyrillic alphabet there , before that people used to write in Slavic runes . .) but IMO all Russians share with East Rome is the religion and the script . .

No common roots . .

Apart from that Russia is located far more north than the mediterranean empire of East Rome . .

Like I said , the religion of Orthodox Christianity and thus the Greek based cyrillic alphabet came there via missonaries yet Russia is a Nordic / Slavic state while East Rome was mediterranean . .





 
Old August 11th, 2018 #5
Adolf Goldbergstein
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Russia chose Eastern Orthodox as their national religion. Reason the other ones failed to be chosen:

Judaism - No homeland
Islam - No alcohol
Catholic - Too much government control
 
Old August 11th, 2018 #6
ColdFire
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Originally Posted by Adolf Goldbergstein View Post
Russia chose Eastern Orthodox as their national religion. Reason the other ones failed to be chosen:

Judaism - No homeland
Islam - No alcohol
Catholic - Too much government control
"Judaism - No homeland" . . the jews had a homeland . .It was called Judea . . .


Little reminder . . Judaism came into being when the tribe of Judah was kicked out of the entirety of the Israelite tribe , forming their own community ( rabbinical Judaism ) . . .

What set the jews apart from the other Israelites above all else was that they refuted Jesus as the Messiah . . There are still controversies about why the tribe of Judah was kicked out of the Israelite collective . . The assumptions for reasons range from claims that they didn't want to 'play along' with the other Israelites even to claims that the kick-out was racially motivated . . . .

Anyway , the Israelites awaited their Messiah yet the jews , as having been kicked out of Israel recently , refuted him . . .

After the supposed 'Holocaust' during world War 2 , the jews , recently having been without a state for many years , got 'Eretz Israel' , the Zionist state . . . .


Why it was called 'Israel' and not 'Judea' , as the original home of the jews is a riddle . .

Not meaning to go too far into jewish history here but that's my statement . . . .

"Islam - No alcohol" . . . the reason strict believing Muslims consume no alcohol is because the prophet drank none . . It is however in lores that in the ancient Middle East ( i. e. before religions such as Christianity and / or Islam ) more or less the opposite was the case . . It is in lores that the ancient Middle Easterners were very fond of alcohol ( after all , even the word 'alcohol' stems from Arabic . . .) . .

It is said that Muhammad saw that custom with dislike . . .

Just as info . .

"Catholic - Too much government control" . .

The Catholic Church , to this day , is built up , more or less , in a medieval way . . . .

You have strict hierarchy in it . .

Yes , institutions like the Catholic Church also invented the Inquisition to see "if people are loyal to their faith" , something which was absent with Protestants and / or Orthodoxy . . .
 
Old August 11th, 2018 #7
Adolf Goldbergstein
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Well, Ferdinand and Isabella owned the Mediterranean coast from Spain to Italy at the time of the Inquisition and the Americas conquests and missionaries. If things went differently, central and south America could have ended up Muslim. Their daughter married off to Arthur of Wales, then Henry. Henry then taking Anne breaking of from the Catholic church and then his daughter Elizabeth defeating Spain.
 
Old August 12th, 2018 #8
Alex Him
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdFire View Post
Are you sure that word couldn't be old Russian ?
In Russian there is a word "татары". But there is no word "татарус" in the Russian language. And I'm sure that in the ancient Russian language the word "татарус" also did not exist.



Quote:
Because I remember reading this statement in a history book years ago . .
What exactly did this statement consist of?

I can tell you that any Russian word forms "Tatar" and "Mongol" are quite unlike any forms of the Russian word "hell" and its synonyms.

But if this statement is that the Russian chronicles considered the invasion of the Mongols as a forerunner of the apocalypse, then this may well be true.



Quote:
The Russian alphabet sure is influenced by Greek ( named 'cyrillic' after a Greek missonary called 'Cyrill' ) but TBH I wouldn't go so far as to call Russians the heirs of East Rome ( Constantinople ) . . Yes , the people of Byzantium ( Constantinople ) used that script yet where it once was today is Turkey . .

Yes, the Orthodox Church of Greece is central to Russia ( hence also the development of the cyrillic alphabet there , before that people used to write in Slavic runes . .) but IMO all Russians share with East Rome is the religion and the script . .

No common roots . .

Apart from that Russia is located far more north than the mediterranean empire of East Rome . .

Like I said , the religion of Orthodox Christianity and thus the Greek based cyrillic alphabet came there via missonaries yet Russia is a Nordic / Slavic state while East Rome was mediterranean . .
Of course, during the Mongol invasion, the Russians had not yet considered themselves as heirs of the Eastern Roman Empire.

But after the capture of Constantinople by the Ottoman Turks in 1453, the Russians began to see themselves as the heirs of the Eastern Roman Empire. Yes, of course, they inherited the form of religion from the Eastern Roman Empire, but in those days it was religion that was the main element in people's lives.

In addition, the Grand Prince of Moscow Ivan III (1440-1505) was married to the Byzantine princess Sophia Palaeologus (about 1455-1503). (So she was the grandmother of Ivan IV the Terrible).

Therefore at that moment the Russians felt themselves to be the only remaining custodians of the true Christian faith. Since all other patriarchates, namely, Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem, were under the rule of Muslims.

There was even created such a formula that: Moscow is the third Rome. And the fourth Rome will never be. (The second Rome was Constantinople).

That is, according to this formula, there are three cities that consistently transmited to each other the title of "city the custodian of the true Christian faith" and the city of Moscow in this row is the last and final.
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Where should they dig the Very Deep Pit?
Piglet said that the best place would be somewhere where a Heffalump was, just before he fell into it, only about a foot farther on.
(c) Alan Alexander Miln
 
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