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Old August 2nd, 2008 #961
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roberto Muehlenkamp View Post
No, very appropriate.
Asking for empirical evidence is scientific; expecting people to take the word of men and to revere them, to consider them unquestionable and to become indignant when others question them is religious, not quasi or semi but full on religious. When you say things like this:

Quote:
...a lunatic fringe of self-projecting fanatics faithfully clinging to baseless, ideologically motivated and quasi-religious dogmas.
you're causing sniggering through to belly laughs all around.

Quote:
What part of the last quoted paragraph:

did you not understand?
This bit:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Berty
And I wouldn’t give a flying fuck about some howling lunatic’s fraudulent "FINAL SOLUTION FORENSIC CHALLENGE" and a reward for which I would probably have to run after 21 characterless and probably also penniless frauds, made from the same used toilet paper as Mr. Gerdes, for the part of the reward amount to which each of them has supposedly committed.

However, I might make available evidence material to who feels like making those frauds put their money where their mouths are, or at least humiliate the most obnoxious of those frauds.
You're just a sack full of contradictions, Bert.

Quote:
See you in three weeks, my friend.
I'm being honest when I say I'm going to miss you. You better come back.
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Old August 3rd, 2008 #962
Greg Gerdes
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Roberta:

"Now, Mr. Gerdes, I won't be here for at least the next three weeks, because Iím being committed to a mental institution tomorrow, so there will be little or no chance to be on the Internet during all this time. Iím telling you this because I want you to know that I can no longer stand getting my ass kicked day after day after day. I have run away and you and your superior intellect have won the day. I probably won't ever be back because I would only end up showing the world again what a pathetic liar and infantile jerk I am."

Well, at least the cowardly liar was honest for her last post. But I'm sure going to miss the daily asskickings I gave the greasy jewbitch. But maybe one of the other faggots at HC will step up and take Retardo's place?

Maybe Sogay Sucksmenov will step in for Retardo?
 
Old August 3rd, 2008 #963
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Retardo:

If I remember correctly (if not, I’m showing them for the first time), I have also already shown these photographs of bone fragments found in the area of Sobibor extermination camp:

http://www.holocaustresearchproject....fragments.html

http://www.holocaustresearchproject....n%20brick.html

Bwaaaahaaaaaahaaaaahaaaaaa!
 
Old August 4th, 2008 #964
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Well, I'm not surprised that Roberta has tucked tail and ran back to her boyfriend so he can cover her ass and she can avoid answering inconvenient questions. I kicked the shit out of her so bad over at topix, she stopped "debating" me there over a week ago. As soon as I put the unanswered questions to her, she had no choice but to run away like the coward she is, and now she's doing the same here.

Anyway, here again are the unanswered questions about Sobibor that Roberta has run away from. (this will be a work in progress)


1 - On what EXACT date(s) was Michael Shermer physically in the Sobibor camp?

2 - Why does he refuse to reveal this date(s)?

3 - Are there photographs that prove he ever stepped foot in the camp?

4 - If so, then why does he refuse to release them?

5 - On what date can we expect Shermers report on his findings that resulted from his "firsthand investigation" of the camp?

* Note: Contact information for the lying coward Shermer can be found at the bottom of this link here:

http://www.vho.org/tr/2002/3/tr11shermer.html

6 - On what EXACT date(s) was Kola physically in the Sobibor camp?

7 - Why does he refuse to reveal this date(s)?

8 - Are there photographs that prove he ever stepped foot in the camp?

9 - If so, then why does he refuse to release them?

10 - Are there photographs of Kola actually excavating the alleged "huge mass graves?"

11 - If so, then why does he refuse to release them?

12 - Are there photographs proving that any human remains actually exist?

13 - If so, then why does he refuse to release them?

14 - What were the results were of the analysis of those soil core samples that the jews claim are: "ashes of human bone and tissue for the light gray stuff, wood ashes for the black stuff and pure bone ashes or lime for the white stuff?"

15 - On what date can we expect Kolas report on his findings that resulted from his "excavation" of the 7 alleged "huge mass graves?"

16 - What proof is there that the "huge ash mountain" of Sobibor is actually comprised of human ash?

17 - Where are the photographs of the huge pit is that this "mountain of human ash" was dug out of?

18 - Why does the $100,000.00 - THE FINAL SOLUTION FORENSIC CHALLENGE reward go unclaimed?


Roberta:

“Actually I’m able to prove the existence of all of these mass graves by simply referring to Prof. Kola’s description. Proof is contained in Prof. Kola’s published report about his findings on site, and in the documentary and eyewitness evidence about the mass killings at Sobibor, which is compatible with Kola’s findings.”


19 - And where can we find this published report?

20 - Or did you lie about it being published?

19 - BTW Roberta, why do you keep running from the questions about the soil core samples of Sobibor?

21 - What do the frauds at the Sobibor Archaeology Project say those core samples are comprised of?

22 - Can you show us a single photo of a single "huge mass grave" of Sobibor - yes or no?

* * * * *

BTW Roberta, have I ever told you that you’re priceless?

Over 10,000 views on this thread alone. Just think how many people now know about the fraudulent Sobibor "excavations" that didn't know about it before? And the same goes for the nafcash challenge.

Thank you Retardo.

Priceless.
 
Old August 4th, 2008 #965
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I have a question about Shermer as well, does he have any official procedure that could be reproduced?
 
Old August 4th, 2008 #966
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Retardo:

"If mass graves are described in a coincident manner by several eyewitnesses independent of each other and the place in question is one that other evidence shows lots of people to have been taken to but few if any to have left alive, thereís no room for reasonably doubting the existence of such graves even if no one ever photographs them.

Priceless.

Thank you Roberta. (I hope your shock treatments are going well.)
 
Old August 4th, 2008 #967
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PS:

Quote:
"I have a question about Shermer as well, does he have any official procedure that could be reproduced?"
Well, let's take a look at Mr. - "Not only is it defensible to respond to the holocaust deniers, it is, we believe, our duty... We believe it is time to move beyond name calling and present the evidence."

* Polish investigator Zdzislaw Lukaszkiewicz admitted in his summation after his Treblinka investigation: “During the work on the terrain, I found no mass graves.” He also admitted that, after excavating the alleged Treblinka lazzarette: “At the end of the work... There were no human remains found.” He further admitted, after attempting to prove that there were homicidal gas chambers at Treblinka as alleged, that: “A series of test excavations were performed at the place where the [gas] chambers had to have been located… Pits 10 - 15 meters in length and 1.5 meters deep were dug. [Nothing but] Undisturbed layers of earth were uncovered by this.”

The entire Treblinka holocaust legend is based entirely on nonsensical “eyewitness accounts,” yet when the golden opportunity arose for these same “eyewitnesses” to help forensically prove the “history” that they claimed to have witnessed; they were unable to locate so much as a single “huge mass grave!” This is why Shermer intentionally tried to suppress the fact that there have been numerous on-site investigations conducted at Treblinka that conclusively refute his alleged (and unpublished) “findings,” which oh-so conveniently parrots the most recent official story. With the help of shameless professional liars like Shermer, all previous on-site investigations of Treblinka have been put down the memory hole.

The following information will further illustrate just how incredibly easy laying claim to THE FINAL SOLUTION FORENSIC CHALLENGE TM should be - IF the official version of the alleged “pure extermination centers” is true and the spurious claims that they’ve been scientifically proven via archeological investigations are not fraudulent:

(November 23, 2001) Mass Graves Found at Nazi Polish Death Camp

WARSAW (Reuters) - Polish archaeologists excavating the Nazi death camp in Sobibor said they have found mass graves at the site. The excavations could provide valuable new evidence on the number of victims. “We uncovered seven mass graves with an average depth of five meters. In them there were charred human remains and under them remains in a state of decay” archaeologist Andrzej Kola was quoted by the Polish PAP news agency telling a news conference. He said the largest grave measured 70 by 25 meters, the others 20 by 25 meters. Wladyslaw Bartoszewski, a former Polish foreign minister said - “it is vital to gather evidence to refute the claims of those seeking to deny the Holocaust,” adding - “The work will continue - we have to confirm scientifically that this camp existed.”

Well now, let’s take a look at what Shermer has to say in his deluding novel – DENYING HISTORY in relation to what we know and what has been claimed to have been scientifically proven at Sobibor.

Page 1 -

the culmination of years of research… We also traveled to the camps themselves, to… Treblinka, Sobibor… to test the claims that no

Page 2 -

mass murder, especially by gassing, took place by intention at these camps… The purpose of this book is to… show precisely, with solid evidence, how we know the holocaust happened…

Page 3 -

Many of our

Page 4 -

arguments draw on specialized research into the claims of the deniers that took us… to the Nazi extermination camps themselves…

Page 5 -

if we want to be taken seriously, we must obey the rules of reason and apply the tools of science

Page 14 -

We believe that once a claim is in the public consciousness… it should be properly analyzed

Page 15 -

Not only is it defensible to respond to the holocaust deniers, it is, we believe, our duty.

Page 16 -

We believe it is time to move beyond name calling and present the evidence.

Page 17 -

We must be forthright and honest about what we know and do not know about the holocaust... We cannot remain silent anymore. It is time to respond. ...it is the duty of informed experts on a subject to share their knowledge. It is our belief that the truth will always win out when the evidence is made available for all to see.

Page 20 -

How is it that so much physical evidence can come to be doubted?

Page 30 -

Historians both discover and describe the past, just as natural scientists... based on current available evidence, much as natural scientists do with evidence from the natural world.

Page 31 -

We can use the methods of science to help us resolve such debates through the same methods… this process is practiced by all scientists… such as… geologists, paleontologists and archaeologists, to prove that anything in the past happened.

Page 127 -

How can anyone deny that the Nazis used gas chambers and crematoria? Don’t these facilities still exist in many camps? To debunk the deniers can’t we just go there and see them for ourselves? The answer, of course, is “yes.” …To find out, we went to Europe to conduct research at the camps, in particular at - Sobibor, Treblinka… We wanted to see for ourselves just what evidence there is at the camps and to take the opportunity to examine firsthand the claims

Page 137 -

Additional evidence comes from the confessions of guards…

Page 153 -

in order to make proper interpretations, we must review the physical evidence in conjunction with written documents and eyewitness testimonies.

Page 175 -

As historical scientists, however, we realize that even such powerful statements by the perpetrators must be corroborated

Page 153 -

We must review the physical evidence in conjunction with written documents and eyewitness testimony

Page 238 -

as long as scholars put their claims forward as testable hypotheses, then those hypotheses can be weighed against the evidence and accepted or rejected

Page 251 -

There is an unstated understanding amongst scientists and scholars that they will make every effort to be honest with their data, to put aside personal desires and egos, to look for disconfirming evidence, to verify their claims… We must also approach history as a scientific discipline… as long as the facts are presented and the interpretations are made within the boundaries of the evidence…


Is there a bigger hypocrite in the world than Shammer?


You can find contact information for the lying coward here PS -

http://www.vho.org/tr/2002/3/tr11shermer.html


The lying coward has been running from me now for 4 years. Now his partner Retardo has run away also.

Good luck PS, please let us know if the coward repsonds to your email.
 
Old August 4th, 2008 #968
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Wait a second Gerdes, I don't quite understand. Is his novel all like that?
Are there any results within it? Maps of the area he surveyed? Photographs of the survey? Data? Any exact placement of graves and amount of bones found or bone matter? How thorough is this book? I would want to know before I ask him.
 
Old August 5th, 2008 #969
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PS:

"Wait a second Gerdes, I don't quite understand. Is his novel all like that? Are there any results within it? Maps of the area he surveyed? Photographs of the survey? Data? Any exact placement of graves and amount of bones found or bone matter? How thorough is this book?"

Is his novel all like that? - Pretty much.

Are there any results within it? Maps of the area he surveyed? Photographs of the survey? Data? - About the only thing in the book that could be called research / results of research / data / photographs is in chapter 6. And even that is the most trite BS you've ever read. (Just imagine a book written by the disgusting jewbitch Roberta and you can get an idea of what it's like.)

The whole book is a deluding exercise in sophistry - you know, the whole "convergence of evidence" crap, but very VERY poorly done. It's incredibly sophomoric and as far from "skeptical" as one could imagine. In fact, it's the antithesis of skepticism. Of course, when one is trying to prove an absurdity / physical impossibility, what else could the end result be?

If you would like to read a couple of good reviews, I would suggest these two to begin with. The first one, is absolutely great, I can't recommend it enough. It goes beyond Shermer and gets to the bottom of the whole argument in a philosophical sense. The second one is very good also. It's specifically targets Shermer and DENYING HISTORY, and is a good start to all the other articles by Grubach that tear Shammer to shreds. Again, the first one couldn't be recommended more highly to anyone who is interested in the hoax, not just Shermer, and Grubach has other articles that destroy Shermer that you can find easily via google.

1 - http://www.geniebusters.org/915/04g_jumping.html

2 - http://www.geniebusters.org/915/04g_jumping.html
 
Old August 5th, 2008 #970
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Here is an excertp of article #1 that I've recomended:

In the summer of 1995, after going to the "meta-debate" between Michael Shermer and Mark Weber, I went back and started reading "Proving the Holocaust" closely, in focus, the same way I would read a mathematical proof, or the same way a judge would listen to the arguments in an important case.

That's the only way to understand this subject. It has to be studied carefully, and slowly. Michael's article is designed to be read quickly. If you just skim over it, as I did when I first bought the magazine, his conclusion does seem to "jump together." As with most illusions produced by magical tricks, timing is essential. If you slow down and look carefully at the logic, his "jumping together" illusion doesn't work. Instead, a very different picture emerges.

The starting point

On the Six Reasons page, I began by delimiting the subject: we aren't talking about the Holocaust in general, we are talking about the gas chambers. (* Replace gas chambers with "huge mass graves" and this article becomes even better.) Michael Shermer doesn't delimit the subject.

On the contrary, he says (page 214 of the book, page 41 of the magazine)

"The Holocaust was not a single event. The Holocaust was thousands of events in tens of thousands of places and is proved by millions of bits of data that converge on one conclusion. The Holocaust cannot be disproved by minor errors or inconsistencies here and there, for the simple reason that it was never proved by these lone bits of data in the first place."

As with many things in life, you have to keep your eye on the ball. As soon as you let yourself get drawn into an argument about whether "it" happened, where "it" has no definite meaning, all is lost.

The point at issue between the revisionists and other historians is not whether the Holocaust happened. If the Holocaust is "thousands of events," then yes, obviously, some of it happened. Dr. Shermer tries to pretend that the revisionists are "deniers" who "deny the Holocaust" as a general phenomenon. In fact, as he knows perfectly well, no one denies the Holocaust as a general phenomenon. Of course the Nazis rounded up Jews and sent them to concentration camps, where many of them died. That doesn't need to be proved, since it is obvious and acknowledged by everyone. Of course "it" happened, in that sense.

The point at issue is how much of the Holocaust story is true. The fact that some of it is true doesn't imply that all of it is true.


* The only way to get anywhere with this investigation is to focus on one well-defined question, preferably a simple question about physical facts, * and stay focused on that question until it is settled.


The question that suggests itself for this purpose is: Were there gas chambers? (* are there "huge mass graves?") There is nothing subjective or nebulous about this. "Whether there were (*are) gas chambers" (*"huge mass graves") isn't ten thousand things, it's one thing. This is a straightforward Aristotelian situation: either there were gas chambers at Auschwitz and the other camps, or there were not. (*Either there are "huge mass graves," or there aren't.) We aren't talking about Schroedinger's cat. This is a simple thing.

If we define the subject to be "whether there were gas chambers" (*whether there are "huge mass graves"), then we have a question that can be decided by the same rules of evidence and logic that apply in any other historical discussion, or in a courtroom.

But Michael Shermer doesn't want a straightforward Aristotelian situation. That would pull the rug out from under his whole approach, so he defines the subject as "The Holocaust," which was "not a single event."

I can't overemphasize the importance of this first step. The specification of the subject sets the stage for everything else. Dr. Shermer has set up his argument in such a way that the ordinary methods of logic don't apply. As I said above, the only way to understand this is to slow down. This is like a shell game or cups and balls game: you have to watch what he's doing. But you have to start watching soon enough. There's no use watching carefully as a magician pulls pigeons out of his sleeve. By then it's too late. You should have been watching carefully several minutes earlier when he put them there.

Let's pause here and look at his statement again:

"The Holocaust cannot be disproved by minor errors and inconsistencies here and there, for the simple reason that it was never proved by these lone bits of data in the first place."

This is where he puts the pigeons in his coat. He will pull them out later. He will keep pulling them out for the next 20 pages.

At this point we have already left the realm of logic and entered another realm, where he can invoke his "jumping together" maneuver...The Shermer Principle is not logic. It's flim-flam. This form of argument could be used to "prove" anything.
 
Old August 13th, 2008 #971
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I just thought I should save this just in case the lying jewbitch went back and deleted it. This is from Roberta's post #423

Quote:
Quote: Originally Posted by Gerdes

Roberta, what has Shermer told you about his investigation / findings?

You have contacted Shermer by now and asked him, haven't you?

Roberta:


I contacted Shermer on 15 May 2008 to call his attention to my HC article about Gerdes. The message read as follows:


Quote:

Dear Dr. Shermer,

My name is Roberto Muehlenkamp, I am a German citizen living and working in Portugal , and I post on the RODOH forum ( http://rodohforum.yuku.com/directory ) and the “Holocaust Controversies” blog. ( http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspt.com/ ).

I’m writing to you because I thought you might be interested in the last HC article, which is about your “friend” Greg Gerdes of NAFCASH. The article has already been brought to Mr. Gerdes’ attention.

Best regards,
Roberto Muehlenkamp



On the same day I sent a PS reading as follows:


Quote:

P.S. The address of HC is:
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com


A bit of publicity for the HC blog, taking advantage of our common acquaintance Gerdes. That was it. There was no feedback from Shermer.
 
Old August 13th, 2008 #972
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I didn't get to send any mail to Shermer since I was on a vacation but it seems I wouldn't get a reply since he didn't even send a reply to an ally.
 
Old August 14th, 2008 #973
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Glad I found this topic. This could develop into the death rattle of the holofaux.
 
Old August 14th, 2008 #974
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Welcome TF. This is really all you need to know to get caught up:

Quote:
(Reuters - Nov., 23, 2001)

MASS GRAVES FOUND AT NAZI POLISH DEATH CAMP

"Polish archaeologists excavating the Nazi death camp in Sobibor said on Friday they had found mass graves at the site.They could provide valuable new evidence on the number of victims, mainly Jews, who died in the Sobibor gas chambers. According to official Polish accounts, 250,000 people were killed in Sobibor.

''We uncovered seven mass graves with an average depth of five meters. In them there were charred human remains and under them remains in a state of decay. That means that in the final stage the victims were burned,'' archaeologist Andrzej Kola was quoted by the Polish PAP news agency telling a news conference. He said the largest grave measured 70 meters by 25 meters, the others 20 by 25 meters."

We're waiting for the jews to prove that these graves actually exist and we're waiting for Retardo to lay claim to THE FINAL SOLUTION FORENSIC CHALLENGE.

It's been 7 years so far - and not so much as a single photo.

Go figure.
 
Old August 15th, 2008 #975
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T.F. Scheb View Post
Glad I found this topic. This could develop into the death rattle of the holofaux.
Don't hold your breathe. Though perhaps Gerdes will produce some definitive evidence - no wait, he's not in the evidence game is he? Just the denier game
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Old August 16th, 2008 #976
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamin2 View Post
Don't hold your breathe. Though perhaps Gerdes will produce some definitive evidence - no wait, he's not in the evidence game is he? Just the denier game
This is self-imploding comedy.
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Old August 16th, 2008 #977
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ced smythe View Post
This is self-imploding comedy.
I'm sorry, is there something I have asserted but not backed up?
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But all jews do speak in absolutes though. Just like you.

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Old August 16th, 2008 #978
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamin2 View Post
I'm sorry, is there something I have asserted but not backed up?
Slameth, one of us is a nut. Let's face it, man... it's you.
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Old August 16th, 2008 #979
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ced smythe View Post
Slameth, one of us is a nut. Let's face it, man... it's you.
And one of us is a coward ... since I am playing against the crowd, guess it must be you.
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Old August 16th, 2008 #980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamin2 View Post
And one of us is a coward ... since I am playing against the crowd, guess it must be you.
Again, the old persecution complex rears it's ugly mug.

You are going with the grain, at your leisure; no crowd, no pressure; and the choice is yours whether you respond or not.

BTW, starting your response with "and" denotes agreement, which could be construed as a bout of honesty. This has earned you a bit of respect from me.
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