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View Poll Results: Do the love letters prove that Steele went crazy? See them at http://vnnforum.com/showthread.php?p=
Steele is sane and was framed by the ADL and the government. 2 14.29%
Steele is sane and was not framed. 3 21.43%
It is not possible to know if he is crazy or was framed. 6 42.86%
Steele is playing crazy and was not framed. 0 0%
Steele is completely crazy and was framed. 0 0%
Steele is completely crazy and was not framed. 3 21.43%
Voters: 14. You may not vote on this poll

 
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Old July 12th, 2012 #61
Hadding
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I am not very interested in what Pauly says about Cyndi Steele. Thanks for admitting that Steele showed horrendously bad judgment over and over, which should in itself have been grounds for getting his head examined, especially given his recent medical history.

I remember when Jim Giles was talking to an attorney about the Steele case and he told him about the phone-call from prison wherein he tried to instruct Cyndi Steele on what to say. This attorney's reaction was basically, Omg! Steele was doing something incredibly foolish that he as an attorney should have known was going to bring a charge of witness-tampering. Why did he do it anyway? Some form of diminished capacity (particularly in regard to self-control) would be a good explanation.

What would be a "sign of insanity" to you, Bev? Does he have to claim that he's Napoleon?

The guy that was turned queer by a stroke wouldn't be counted as insane by current standards either. He can speak perfectly well, too, but the trauma definitely affected him. If being queer were a crime in the UK I would recommend a medical defense for him, just as for Steele and his desire to kill his wife and mother-in-law.

Last edited by Hadding; July 12th, 2012 at 01:36 PM.
 
Old July 12th, 2012 #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hadding View Post
I am not very interested in what Pauly says about Cyndi Steele.
You should be. It's a large part of his claim.

Quote:
Thanks for admitting that Steele showed horrendously bad judgment over and over, which should in itself have been grounds for getting his head examined,
Plenty of people show repeated bad judgment. It's not a sign of insanity.
Quote:
especially given his recent medical history.
Unfortunately there is no reliable evidence to suggest that the aorta-madness claim is valid. Anecdotes, maybes, suppositions, yes. Solid, undeniable evidence, no.
Quote:
I remember when Jim Giles was talking to an attorney about the Steele case and he told him about the phone-call from prison wherein he tried to instruct Cyndi Steele on what to say.
Yes, a stupid mistake. He should have known that his calls would be monitored, along with his letters.
Quote:
This attorney's reaction was basically, Omg! Steele was doing something incredibly foolish that he as an attorney should have known was going to bring a charge of witness-tampering. Why did he do it anyway?
Fear of being framed for something he didn't do?

Trying to get out of something he did do?

I don't know.
Quote:
Some form of diminished capacity (particularly in regard to self-control) would be a good explanation.
Yes, prison disorients many people.

Quote:
What would be a "sign of insanity" to you, Bev? Does he have to claim that he's Napoleon?
No. But a one-off crime is not a sign of insanity. His mistakes - the very few we can count, once the spin is stripped - could easily be put down to panic at the punishment for what he'd done - or panic because he knew he was being stitched up. It's not necessarily insanity.

I would expect consistent behavioural changes - and this is the crucial part - since the aorta burst - and there have been no such reports from anyone who knows him, only from internet post-mortemists.

I would have expected a different manner on the interview I saw. I would not have expected it to be much the same as pre-aorta interviews.
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Old July 12th, 2012 #63
Donald E. Pauly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bev View Post
Ooh - quick edit!
.......
We have two versions for the love letters - blowing open some kind of bride scam or she is his girlfriend. The former is reasonable, the latter, whilst bloody stupid, is not evidence of insanity. Thousands of blokes cheat on their partners and tell them they aren't married. So what? Not evidence of insanity.
The girlfriend or supposed bride scam are both separate insanity proofs. Each is beyond argument a proof, which ever is the case.
 
Old July 12th, 2012 #64
Donald E. Pauly
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If Steele claimed to be Napoleon, it would not be proof that he was insane. It is certainly possible for Napoleon to be reincarnated in him. Admittedly, it could be grounds to have his head examined.

Him claiming that he was investigating a Ukrainian bride scam is proof that he is insane. After his near divorce, no mental examination is required.

I just wrote Steele's daughter Kelsey and his son Rex to have them take the poll and join us. Rex doesn't have an account on VNN Forum yet but I told him to sign up. Kelsey has an account. They can tell us lots of things about his sanity. Cyndi is pouting and won't answer my letters these days. The prospect of her having to get a job does not please her.
 
Old July 12th, 2012 #65
Donald E. Pauly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hadding View Post
........
I remember when Jim Giles was talking to an attorney about the Steele case and he told him about the phone-call from prison wherein he tried to instruct Cyndi Steele on what to say. This attorney's reaction was basically, Omg! Steele was doing something incredibly foolish that he as an attorney should have known was going to bring a charge of witness-tampering. Why did he do it anyway? Some form of diminished capacity (particularly in regard to self-control) would be a good explanation.
........
I rise in defense of Steele regarding the witness-tampering charge. That was rather chickenshit. He didn't threaten his wife. That call was well within the attorney client relationship that he had with his wife. I cut him plenty of slack on that. He could have been ordered not to contact his wife again rather than piling on an additional charge. That is what was done anyway after the charge was added. They added 10 years in prison for that one phone call.

Last edited by Donald E. Pauly; July 12th, 2012 at 02:55 PM. Reason: typo
 
Old July 12th, 2012 #66
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Originally Posted by Bev View Post
You should be. It's a large part of his claim.
I invented the medical interpretation of Steele's actions way back in June 2010 and I can assure you that Donald Pauly had no part in it. Pauly is a latecomer. I do not have to discuss Pauly or his views. It is Pauly who is here discussing my view, plus a lot of views of his own that are not essential to the basic question of how to explain as simply and reasonably as possible the charge against Ed Steele. I think the psychiatric explanation is the answer to that question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bev
Plenty of people show repeated bad judgment. It's not a sign of insanity.
You really do put a lot of effort into blurring the issue. We are not talking about "people"; we are talking about Ed Steele the attorney who could normally be expected not to do such things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bev
Unfortunately there is no reliable evidence to suggest that the aorta-madness claim is valid. Anecdotes, maybes, suppositions, yes. Solid, undeniable evidence, no.
Well that's the whole problem, isn't it? Because Steele has worshipers instead of friends, he was indulged in his hopeless and ridiculous conspiracy frame-up story, so that test-results and expert testimony ("reliable evidence") for the prima facie much more credible psychiatric defense was never assembled.

Last edited by Hadding; July 12th, 2012 at 03:30 PM.
 
Old July 12th, 2012 #67
Donald E. Pauly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hadding View Post
I invented the medical interpretation of Steele's actions way back in June 2010 and I can assure you that Donald Pauly had no part in it. Pauly is a latecomer. I do not have to discuss Pauly or his views. It is Pauly who is here discussing my view, plus a lot of views of his own that not essential to the basic question of how to explain as simply and reasonably as possible the charge against Ed Steele. I think the psychiatric explanation is the answer to that question.
Hadding is correct. He provided proof that he saw the medical explanation long before I did. However, I turned it into an exact science. He will never let me live it down that it took me 12 steps to recover from being a Steele Cheerleader.
 
Old July 12th, 2012 #68
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Originally Posted by Donald E. Pauly View Post
The girlfriend or supposed bride scam are both separate insanity proofs. Each is beyond argument a proof, which ever is the case.
Again, you confuse opinion with fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald E. Pauly View Post
If Steele claimed to be Napoleon, it would not be proof that he was insane.
It would be closer than anything you have managed so far.

Quote:
Him claiming that he was investigating a Ukrainian bride scam is proof that he is insane.
Opinion (and a flawed one at that) not fact.
Quote:
After his near divorce, no mental examination is required.
Correct. His prior marital problems have nothing to do with this. Glad you have finally accepted this.


Quote:
I just wrote Steele's daughter Kelsey and his son Rex to have them take the poll and join us. Rex doesn't have an account on VNN Forum yet but I told him to sign up. Kelsey has an account. They can tell us lots of things about his sanity.
Good. I would like to hear what they have to say about his behaviour post-aorta and pre-pipe bomb. The perspective of someone in a position to know is far more useful than internet post-mortemists.
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Cyndi is pouting and won't answer my letters these days.
If you insult her as you insult posters here, are you surprised?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hadding View Post
I invented the medical interpretation of Steele's actions way back in June 2010
You could have at least "invented" something that has a basis in reality and extensive documented medical back-up.
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the basic question of how to explain as simply and reasonably as possible the charge against Ed Steele.
Simple.

a) He did it.
b) He was framed.

or c) He was mad, but we have no evidence whatsoever for this, just a bit of straw grasping and a few examples of less-than-wise choices.

Quote:
I think the psychiatric explanation is the answer to that question.
Has one been done at all?

Or are you relying on paying your own shrink to make a judgment?
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Old July 12th, 2012 #69
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Missed this bit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hadding View Post
You really do put a lot of effort into blurring the issue. We are not talking about "people"; we are talking about Ed Steele the attorney who could normally be expected not to do such things.
And that makes him infallible? Of course not.

Quote:
Well that's the whole problem, isn't it? Because Steele has worshipers instead of friends, he was indulged in his hopeless and ridiculous conspiracy frame-up story, so that test-results and expert testimony ("reliable evidence") for the prima facie much more credible psychiatric defense was never assembled.
Or a much simpler explanation would be that he is bang to rights and cooked up the story of being framed to get himself off.

I have no dog in this fight, I just have not seen enough to make me believe he was/is insane. I in fact suggested "chemo brain" seeing as it's a real condition, not an anecdotal, uncharted one, and went looking for video of him to see if he was suffering from that. He wasn't. I've filtered through all the insults and spin in the other thread and found nothing to convince me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald E. Pauly View Post
Hadding is correct. He provided proof that he saw the medical explanation long before I did. However, I turned it into an exact science. He will never let me live it down that it took me 12 steps to recover from being a Steele Cheerleader.
Exact science? A list of heavily spun assumptions and opinions that you refuse to be drawn on?
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Old July 12th, 2012 #70
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or c) He was mad, but we have no evidence whatsoever for this, just a bit of straw grasping and a few examples of less-than-wise choices.
It's not "straw-grasping" to say that he may have suffered minor brain-damage when he just went through a severe cardiovascular trauma. It's LIKELY.

It's a HELL OF A LOT MORE LIKELY than what Steele himself called his "Mission Impossible" story.
 
Old July 12th, 2012 #71
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Originally Posted by Hadding View Post
It's not "straw-grasping" to say that he may have suffered minor brain-damage when he just went through a severe cardiovascular trauma. It's LIKELY.

It's a HELL OF A LOT MORE LIKELY than what Steele himself called his "Mission Impossible" story.
So you should have no trouble in providing links to reputable studies done into this phenomenon.

I've seen two or three anecdotal posts elsewhere on the internet from people who claim the same thing, but you need more than that in a courtroom.

It is straw-grasping to claim that Cyndi's behaviour, years before Steele's illness, is proof that Steele is mad. Actually, no. That's not straw-grasping. That's downright stupidity.
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Old July 12th, 2012 #72
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Originally Posted by Bev View Post

And that makes him infallible? Of course not.
Again, you distort the issue.

Previously you changed the question of what is reasonable to expect from Ed Steele to what is reasonable to expect from "people" (since you understood that Steele's behavior was not in order given who he is) and now you present the strawman that exercising the normal prudence of an experienced attorney means being "infallible."

Your eristic is tedious.

Last edited by Hadding; July 13th, 2012 at 12:45 PM.
 
Old July 12th, 2012 #73
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Originally Posted by Hadding View Post
Again, you distort the issue.

Previously you changed the question of what is reasonable to expect from Ed Steele to what is reasonable to expect from "people" (since you understood that Steele's behavior was not in order given who he is) and now you present the strawman that exercising the normal prudence of an experienced attorney means being "infallible."

Your eristic is tedious.
Why should we hold Steele to a different standard?

I hardly think it's a strawman. Your claiming he should be held to a higher standard because of what? His training? Now that is a strawman.
Quote:
Dr. Arnold Smith, 70, an oncologist, has been arrested in a bizarre alleged conspiracy to kill the lawyer, Lee Abraham, who represented his ex-wife in their divorce in the 1990s. What is amazing is how the hit men were stopped in the act by two investigators visiting the lawyer at the most opportune time.

Here is how it unfolded. Agents from the Attorney General’s office were meeting with Abraham when Keaira Byrd, 23, and Derrick Lacy, 25, burst into the law firm to allegedly kill the lawyer. The agents confronted the men and a firefight ensured that ended with Byrd dead and Lacy wounded. One of the agents was also wounded.

To make this legal scenario complete, Abraham also contacted the FBI earlier to report the receipt of a libelous letter targeting his brother, Leflore County Chancery Clerk Sam Abraham, and his sister, Mississippi Delta Community College official Magdalene Abraham.
A doctor. Can you "invent" (your word) an insanity claim for him, too? After all, he is a doctor and must be clever, so we hold him to a different standard.

You find logical disputation tedious? How bizarre. Well, good luck in court when the prosecution begins ripping your "invented" defence to shreds.
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Old July 12th, 2012 #74
Donald E. Pauly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bev View Post
Again, you confuse opinion with fact.
.......
Has one been done at all?

Or are you relying on paying your own shrink to make a judgment?
Had you read the thread, you would know that Steele's head had been examined by the government in jail and the results were never released. The Steele camp has those results and is hiding them. I am trying to get them. Both sides want to keep the fact that Steele went crazy from the public.
 
Old July 12th, 2012 #75
Donald E. Pauly
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Originally Posted by Donald E. Pauly View Post
......
Him claiming that he was investigating a Ukrainian bride scam is proof that he is insane. After his near divorce, no mental examination is required.
......
I confused Bev and possibly others. Steele was nearly taken for everything but the shirt off his back by Cyndi after she caught him looking for women on www.match.com . After that close brush with disaster, he was FOREVER barred from looking for women on line FOR ANY REASON if he was sane. He did so by his own admission. No jury would ever believe the story. Once he did so, it was totally unnecessary to examine his head to know that he was crazy.
 
Old July 12th, 2012 #76
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Talking New Poll Is Online!

You can find the poll right here:
Has Donald E. Pauly Lost His Mind?
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Originally Posted by Dale VanderMeer View Post
Seriously, I wonder how Pauly feels about us taking a poll on his own sanity in the Nutzpah Lounge?
 
Old July 12th, 2012 #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald E. Pauly View Post
Had you read the thread, you would know that Steele's head had been examined by the government in jail and the results were never released. The Steele camp has those results and is hiding them. I am trying to get them. Both sides want to keep the fact that Steele went crazy from the public.
An examination by a government physician was probably not directed toward finding the kind of information that would be needed to construct a defense for Steele, although some findings relevant for a psychiatric defense may have been recorded.
 
Old July 12th, 2012 #78
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You find logical disputation tedious? How bizarre. Well, good luck in court when the prosecution begins ripping your "invented" defence to shreds.
I said that your eristic was tedious, BITCH.

If you don't know what that word connotes then look it up.

Last edited by Hadding; July 12th, 2012 at 08:33 PM.
 
Old July 12th, 2012 #79
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I said that your eristic was tedious, BITCH.

If you don't know what that word connotes then look it up.
Nice.
 
Old July 12th, 2012 #80
Donald E. Pauly
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Originally Posted by Dale VanderMeer View Post
You can find the poll right here:
Has Donald E. Pauly Lost His Mind?
This is rich! All this publicity will help us get a doctor and lawyer to get him out of prison. He will love you for it if we can ever restore him to sanity.
 
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