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September 27th, 2013 | #21 |
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I want to take this opportunity to point out the difference between grammar, which governs the use of words and phrases and clauses (and the relationship between them), and syntax, which governs sentence structure and meaning.
For example: a sentence can be grammatically correct, but if the meaning which is given by the sentence is different to the intended meaning, that's more than likely due to a syntactical error or (on the part of the reader) a lack of understanding of a syntactical feature in a given language. Syntax is also a massive category, which governs many, many different features of language use. |
September 27th, 2013 | #23 | |
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"Fortysomething" does not seem to be hyphenated in usage, as far as I can tell. There is no need for "that" to precede "music." It should always be edited out. You are correct. |
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September 27th, 2013 | #24 | |
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I don't THINK the way I did it is ungrammatical. Even if it were, I wouldn't care because it's an artistic formulation, and grammar yields to production values where it must, as decided by the writer, the effects producer. It's just an interesting question to me. Then also I wonder, as said, if there's a name for this technique. It may not technically be a technique at all, merely an elision, in that I could have said: I really think I -- I mean, I really think music -- was better back then. I'm saying the same thing but oddly. To produce an effect, stimulate a sensation and recognition - of the psychology and true meaning behind the commonplace. |
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September 27th, 2013 | #25 | |
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The ideas I communicated in that sentence could have been put a different way. Could have been put ten different ways. You choose the words and the order of the words in order best to produce the effect you're trying achieve in the reader. You've heard people say "music was better back then." You've heard that many times. Now you see that same idea, but with a change. A change pregnant with meaning. I feel I music was better back then. What is that second I doing in there? If it's not a mistake, what does the writer mean by that? Then you SEE. You THINK. It's not really hard to grasp, in this case, what he means by that, once you realize it's intentional. Oh... hmm... interesting... Then your next thought would be, well, when is my favorite music from. And then you realize it was stuff you listened to when you were, say, 16-20. So what he says is true in your case. What about others? Are they like you and me and the writer? Or do you find a lot of people whose favorite music is from before 1900? Don't most people like the music of the period in their life in which they listened to music the most? Wouldn't that be high school and college with most people? So there it is. We have an idea, true or untrue, or merely thought-provoking, delivered artistically, not merely communicatively, whether the art is at the level of fingerpainting or Carnegie Hall violining. See...this is the shit that interests me a lot more than politics, which is 99% boring and obvious. |
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September 27th, 2013 | #26 | ||
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Quote:
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Last edited by Alex Linder; September 27th, 2013 at 01:29 AM. |
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September 27th, 2013 | #27 | |
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I actually didn't even see the second I when I first read it. Funny how that happens; words and sentences flow such a way, sometimes. Preconception takes over often in our reading. Our eyes actually only scan over words and sentences, our minds already processing and registering the rest. And sometimes there are mistakes. |
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September 27th, 2013 | #28 |
Switching to glide
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"The emphasis placed on words, spoken or written, are the salt of any sentence". - Vanilla Ice
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"When US gets nuked and NEMO is uninhabitable, I will make my way on foot to the gulf and live off red snapper and grapefruit"- Alex Linder |
September 27th, 2013 | #29 |
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Ohhh - I didn't realise you meant a noun when you said proper name, although you are of course correct. I assumed you meant christian names. I actually know someone called Winter and of course we have a Summer posting here.
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Above post is my opinion unless it's a quote. |
September 27th, 2013 | #30 |
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Should "Christian" be capitalized there? Why yes, I do believe it should. Odd, that.
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"When US gets nuked and NEMO is uninhabitable, I will make my way on foot to the gulf and live off red snapper and grapefruit"- Alex Linder |
September 27th, 2013 | #31 | |
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September 27th, 2013 | #32 |
drinking tea
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Yes it should but I don't capitalise it because I'm not one and don't recognise it as being worthy of a capital letter.
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Above post is my opinion unless it's a quote. |
September 27th, 2013 | #33 |
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Seems like it should read: I feel music (and myself) was better then, than now.
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September 27th, 2013 | #34 |
Switching to glide
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That sounds pretty intolerant. WWOD? What would Odin do, Bev?
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"When US gets nuked and NEMO is uninhabitable, I will make my way on foot to the gulf and live off red snapper and grapefruit"- Alex Linder |
September 27th, 2013 | #35 |
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At some level of writing there is no platinum-iridium bar at the bureau of standards for correct grammar, syntax, and punctuation. The better the writer, the more leeway.
One thing: if a thousand literate readers read your sentence, probably all one-thousand would guess you'd made a typo. That is, unless you were a very prolific writer...then I suppose some of your readers would just attribute the second I to your unconventional style. Mike 1. I used to over-capitalize. I think I've cured myself of this. 2. I still overuse commas. The problem is I just don't much edit what I've written. 3. I write a lot of incomplete sentences. Tough shit! I like em...gonna continue writing incomplete sentences. 4. I use the artifact "..." a lot. It keeps me from having to remember the differences for all the dashes and hyphens. If I could get a patent on "..." I would. Mike If there are errors in the above, it's because I don't much edit what I've written. I should work on this.
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Hunter S. Thompson, "Big dark, coming soon" Last edited by Mike in Denver; September 27th, 2013 at 10:38 AM. |
September 27th, 2013 | #36 | |
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Quote:
The christians did his folk no favours.
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Above post is my opinion unless it's a quote. |
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September 27th, 2013 | #37 | |
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Like I said, the idea could be expressed 100 different ways, but I prefer my way. Most will miss it, you're probably right about that, but I'm going for the higher end with this sort of stuff. |
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September 27th, 2013 | #38 | |
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This is not my view, I'm giving you the conventional view. Personally, I think you're an excellent writer, and it doesn't bother me if you want italicize a lot of words, but truly, just fyi, what I'm telling you is the standard view. Not that anyone is aware of it these days. I mean, I can read what you write, and where you have used italics is where I would put the emphasis anyway - which means you're doing it right, you're writing / communicating effectively, and the italics is, for your readers like me, redundant. Really, writing is just a form of music using words, and if you aren't tone deaf, you can pick up the feel and flow, and understand the patter and the pattern, feel it in your blood. You can tell how the writer is thinking, and where his emphasis falls. It truly is musical. Read Mencken - that's writing at its most delightful, the sound and the sense in perfect harmony. |
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September 27th, 2013 | #39 | |
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Look, this line isn't aimed at average people. I'm not trying to serve fine Italian food to people living in Amarillo, Texas. I'm attempting to deliver an artistic delicacy to the 10%, perhaps, actually paying attention, capable of appreciating something interesting, new and possibly good. |
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September 27th, 2013 | #40 |
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I'm not just delivering an idea that at least I have not personally seen before, I'm coupling what might be an original valuable insight with an unusual syntactical formulation.
Yes...I could have explained the idea very very slowly and simply, that the dullest among us might appreciate it. Not what I was trying to do. What I did was subtle. But intelligible to the intelligent minority, I believe. |
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