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Old July 21st, 2008 #761
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JewInARut View Post
So is having chosen as main debating arena not an equal-opportunity forum like RODOH, but a forum run and frequented by fellow Jew-hating fanatics. As is … (shall I go on, Mr. Gerdes?)
Where else do you get to insult everybody, including moderators?

Keep on Brad Pitting, you great big asset.
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Old July 21st, 2008 #762
Greg Gerdes
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Roberta:

"And just to make it clear once more, I intend to publish proof meeting the requirements in ARCHAEOLOGY or SKEPTIC magazine and submit such proof to NAFCASH as soon as I have it in my hands, independently of what my chances are of ever actually seeing any reward money. If I meet the challenge requirements but cannot obtain payment... that’s fine. If I can obtain payment, that’s even better."

Please rest your damaged little brain Roberta. And please stop hitting your head on the floor - it doesn't help your already low IQ. If you must have another one of your temper tantrums, just jump around and scream and throw / break things and spit at your monitor.

The officially declared winner of THE FINAL SOLUTION FORENSIC CHALLENGE will receive the entire $100,000.00 reward amount within thirty days of being declared the winner of the challenge, and to date, you've offered no proof what-so-ever that that this would be otherwise. All your childish antics are just a smoke screen trying to cover the fact that 21 nonjews and a simple little non-profit, 501 (c) (3) (exempt), Scientific / Historical Educational Organization ( http://www.nafcash.com/ ) / ( https://app.mt.gov/cgi-bin/bes/besCe...48021246484100 ) is making the worlds 15 million jews (the worlds richest people), who knows how many faggots and the billion dollar a year holocaust industry look like the cowardly frauds that they are.

Now, I would say it's time for HC (Homosexual Creeps espousing Historical Canards) to get cracking and:

Show us just one "huge mass grave" that contains just one percent of the alleged mass murder at Treblinka.

Just one body in a "wax-fat transformation" at Belzec.

Just one pound of crushed bone at Chelmno.

Just one ounce of human ash at Sobibor.

Just one gassed jew from the entire "holocaust."

Just one filthy rich greasy jew / homosexual to match nafcash’s reward amount. (Have you contacted your fantasy man - Elton John - yet Roberta? Just admit that you're an AIDS activist, that should give you a lot of clout with him. Maybe you and Sogay Sucksmenov can offer "something special" in return?)


Are you too chicken-shit to show us the above Rertado?

Are you too much of a coward to - get on with it?



Roberta:

"My many expressions as a self-hating loser and pathetic fraud filled with helpless rage are just for you, Mr. Gerdes. I intend to produce more of them so that no one linking to this thread from Homosexual Creeps espousing Historical Canards is left in doubt that I'm a cowardly, mendacious, hysterical and altogether characterless pile of greasy dog-shit. The more often I can show the world what I'm all about, the better. Thank you Mr. Gerdes"

No, thank you Roberta.
 
Old July 21st, 2008 #763
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Am I a 'jew-hating fanatic'?

Nah; just an incarnation of Agag.
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Old July 21st, 2008 #764
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CS
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roberto Muehlenkamp
... is something I leave to my esteemed opponents.

I didn't mention it as a substitute but as a consequence. And that hatred is a poor substitute for pride is something you should perhaps be telling yourself.

Yet more evasive gyration.
No, yet more empty rhetoric on your part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CS
I didn't ask after the consequences of pride. I ask: what is pride? What does being a proud German mean to you?
Let's say being proud of Germany's cultural, technical, scientific and economic achievements and of the stable democracy that Germany has managed to become over the past decades.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CS
Quote:
I have all the time in the world, for I just have to watch and follow what archaeological work is being done on site. And the longer it takes, the longer I will also enjoy watching Gerdes' nervous squirming.

This ties with your neurotic compulsion to blabber self indulgently.
No, blabbering self-indulgently is something I leave to my esteemed opponents. I take advantage of them as demonstration objects of their own imbecility.
 
Old July 21st, 2008 #765
Roberto Muehlenkamp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ced smythe View Post
Where else do you get to insult everybody, including moderators?
Wherever everybody insults me and deserves equal treatment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CS
Keep on Brad Pitting, you great big asset.
Actually you're my asset, CS. But you don't compare to Gerdes, sorry. He's priceless.
 
Old July 21st, 2008 #766
Roberto Muehlenkamp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Gerdes View Post
Roberta:

"And just to make it clear once more, I intend to publish proof meeting the requirements in ARCHAEOLOGY or SKEPTIC magazine and submit such proof to NAFCASH as soon as I have it in my hands, independently of what my chances are of ever actually seeing any reward money. If I meet the challenge requirements but cannot obtain payment... that’s fine. If I can obtain payment, that’s even better."

Please rest your damaged little brain Roberta. And please stop hitting your head on the floor - it doesn't help your already low IQ. If you must have another one of your temper tantrums, just jump around and scream and throw / break things and spit at your monitor.
Thanks for telling us what you do when you fly into one of your famous fits of hysteria, Gerdes. It is more or less what I imagined - except that I also pictured you biting into the carpet like your beloved Führer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
The officially declared winner of THE FINAL SOLUTION FORENSIC CHALLENGE will receive the entire $100,000.00 reward amount within thirty days of being declared the winner of the challenge, and to date, you've offered no proof what-so-ever that that this would be otherwise.
It’s for who makes a claim to provide the proof supporting that claim, asshole. But if you confirm that the above expresses a legally binding undertaking by NAFCASH and its president Greg Gerdes to pay 100,000 dollars to who provides evidence that objectively meets the challenge requirements, I’ll be satisfied.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
All your childish antics are just a smoke screen trying to cover the fact that 21 nonjews and a simple little non-profit, 501 (c) (3) (exempt), Scientific / Historical Educational Organization ( http://www.nafcash.com/ ) / ( https://app.mt.gov/cgi-bin/bes/besCe...48021246484100 ) is making the worlds 15 million jews (the worlds richest people), who knows how many faggots and the billion dollar a year holocaust industry look like the cowardly frauds that they are.
Are you on crack, Gerdes? Have you gone completely bananas? Or is it both?

The only thing you have so far achieved by your challenge is to show what a bunch of sick puppies you and your Nazi butt-buddies are. And unless you find a way to make sure that a winning applicant has prompt and easy access to the reward money, you will furthermore succeed in showing that you’re also a bunch of frauds and that your challenge is a hoax. Have you ever seen a challenge in which the winning applicant is expected to collect the reward money from 20-or-so clowns living in 20-or-so different places throughout the US? For if the supporters of the challenge are liars and charlatans like you (which they probably are), I don’t expect them to disburse their share voluntarily.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
Now, I would say it's time for HC (Homosexual Creeps espousing Historical Canards) to get cracking and:

Show us just one "huge mass grave" that contains just one percent of the alleged mass murder at Treblinka.

Just one body in a "wax-fat transformation" at Belzec.

Just one pound of crushed bone at Chelmno.

Just one ounce of human ash at Sobibor.

Just one gassed jew from the entire "holocaust."

Just one filthy rich greasy jew / homosexual to match nafcash’s reward amount. (Have you contacted your fantasy man - Elton John - yet Roberta? Just admit that you're an AIDS activist, that should give you a lot of clout with him. Maybe you and Sogay Sucksmenov can offer "something special" in return?)

Are you too chicken-shit to show us the above Rertado?

Are you too much of a coward to - get on with it?
The usual self-portraying and self-projecting invective aside, you are making no sense at all, my friend.

Your idiotic "just one" demands for specific individual exhibits are irrelevant from the point of view of historical research and criminal investigation, because they contribute little if anything to the evidentiary record of the events in question and because proof of any amount of these exhibits related to the mass murder, body disposal and robbery digging that left them behind logically follows from the eyewitness, documentary and physical evidence which proves that mass murder, body disposal and robbery digging.

They are also irrelevant from the point of view of the NAFCASH challenge, because «one body in a "wax-fat transformation" at Belzec», «one pound of crushed bone at Chelmno», «one ounce of human ash at Sobibor», or «one gassed jew from the entire "holocaust."» are not enough to fulfill the challenge requirements.

And it’s completely unintelligible what showing or failing to show such specific individual exhibits could possibly have to do with having or lacking courage. What physical exhibits of this nature I have access to at this moment I have shown, and if I had more at my disposal it would be in my interest to show them as well, so you should find yourself a less obviously idiotic pretext to call me what you have amply shown to be yourself.

Even more idiotic than your name-calling is your apparent ongoing attempt to saddle a potential applicant to the reward with the burden of obtaining the financing of the reward money. As I already told you and even a retard like you should understand, that’s the challenger’s job. If you think "one filthy greasy jew" would enable you to offer a winning applicant prompt and easy access to 100,000 dollars, it’s your job to find such "filthy greasy jew", not mine.

Or are you trying to tell us that in setting up this sick challenge – offering a money reward in exhange for digging up the remains of murdered human beings – you are displaying the kind of contemptible behavior that you think would fit a "filthy greasy jew", the only difference being that you have less money to offer than you figure a "filthy greasy jew" would have? I wouldn’t be surprised if this were so, considering that throughout this discussion you have been displaying the very mendacity and cowardice that you claim are Jewish characteristics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
Roberta:

"My many expressions as a self-hating loser and pathetic fraud filled with helpless rage are just for you, Mr. Gerdes. I intend to produce more of them so that no one linking to this thread from Homosexual Creeps espousing Historical Canards is left in doubt that I'm a cowardly, mendacious, hysterical and altogether characterless pile of greasy dog-shit. The more often I can show the world what I'm all about, the better. Thank you Mr. Gerdes"

No, thank you Roberta.
The statement you have transformed into further evidence that you’re at the intellectual level of a cockroach actually reads as follows:

Quote:
These and other instructive expressions of a self-projecting loser’s and exposed fraud’s helpless rage are much appreciated, Mr. Gerdes. Please let’s have more of them so that no one linking to this thread from HC or RODOH is left in doubt that you’re a cowardly, mendacious, hysterical and altogether characterless pile of dog-shit. The more often you show the world what you’re all about, the better.
Just keep the manure coming, Gerdes. The world is watching and enjoying the show. It must be as much fun as watching a rabid chimp in the zoo, except that the show of chimp Gerdes is for free.

Last but not least, I just saw your latest posts under http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=5059 :

Quote:
So here is what we have so far (I just added the latest edition):

"Boy, one can sense how carpet-biting mad Gerdes is at my having accepted the challenge... You will hear from me again on this subject when you find an issue of SKEPTIC or ARCHEOLOGY magazine with an article about my research findings in your mailbox... I’m doing my research independently of how big a chance there is that meeting the challenge requirements will get me any money. If I don’t get paid for submitting proof that objectively meets the challenge requirements, that’s fine. If I do get paid, that’s even better... but the next time you repeat that "looking for an angle out" - BS you’ll be telling another lie, a**hole. I have already made clear that the reward money would be nice to have but is not the main motivation for my research... What made me decide to accept your challenge was a big mistake you made in one of your posts, one that considerably improved my chances of having access to the very evidence that is required to meet the challenge requirements... If you don’t want to accept my suggestions... that’s just fine with me. It won’t dissuade me from trying to obtain, publish and present to NAFCASH the required proof, for as you well know the money issue is secondary to me... As you well know, I’m not trying to change anything to my "liking"... what I’m showing the world is that I’m willing to play by the standards of the NAFCASH challenge... And just to make it clear once more, I intend to publish proof meeting the requirements in ARCHAEOLOGY or SKEPTIC magazine and submit such proof to NAFCASH as soon as I have it in my hands, independently of what my chances are of ever actually seeing any reward money. If I meet the challenge requirements but cannot obtain payment... that’s fine. If I can obtain payment, that’s even better."

Well now, I guess the only remaining question I have is:

What is HC waiting for?
Quote:
I would say it's now time for HC to get cracking and show us:

Just one "huge mass grave" that contains just one percent of the alleged mass murder at Treblinka.

Just one body in a "wax-fat transformation" at Belzec.

Just one pound of crushed bone at Chelmno.

Just one ounce of human ash at Sobibor.

Just one gassed jew from the entire "holocaust."

Isn't 65 years long enough to wait for such proof?
Your repetitive rhetoric seems to be getting no feedback from the CODOH folks, which is probably another reason why you are so carpet-biting mad. Could it be that you are too much a crackpot even for their taste?

Ah, and where’s the invitation to "Hannover" Hargis to come over here and have a chat with me?

And as you brought the other contributors of HC into the issue (even though I made it clear that I speak only for myself), when will you finally show the courage to address them directly by posting a message under the article Update on Gerdes & NAFCASH under http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...s-nafcash.html , as I suggested you do?

As I said, CS: he’s priceless.
 
Old July 21st, 2008 #767
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roberto Muehlenkamp View Post
No, yet more empty rhetoric on your part.

Let's say being proud of Germany's cultural, technical, scientific and economic achievements and of the stable democracy that Germany has managed to become over the past decades.
I asked "what is pride? What does being a proud German mean to you?" three times before you gave this fair-ish - open to interpretation - answer so how could evasive gyration be empty rhetoric? Empty rhetoric is a meaningless catchphrase you often resort to.

Quote:
No, blabbering self-indulgently is something I leave to my esteemed opponents. I take advantage of them as demonstration objects of their own imbecility.
Yet more pantomime. Look at the sheer volume of text from you in this thread; very "textbooky" dull it is too.

Quote:
Wherever everybody insults me and deserves equal treatment.
This is closer to non interactive than non sequitur. Did you not see your own quote above my response, JewInARut? I can't believe you're still pretending this forum is somehow hindering you.

Quote:
Actually you're my asset, CS. But you don't compare to Gerdes, sorry. He's priceless.
Yeah, I noticed you're addressing me directly again. Damn!
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Old July 21st, 2008 #768
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[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ced smythe View Post
I asked "what is pride? What does being a proud German mean to you?" evasive gyration be empty rhetoric? Empty rhetoric is a meaningless catchphrase you often resort to.
The Mule faggot is NOT a "proud" German - he brags about some relative of his having fought for Gemany during the war - as though that gives his empty rhetoric the "cachet" of proof.

Quote:

Yet more pantomime. Look at the sheer volume of text from you in this thread; very "textbooky" dull it is too.
The Mule believes that the sheer volume of his nonsenical verbiage will somehow impress us; and prove his argument. It does not even deserve the term "textbooky" - for that implies there's some actual intellect behind his repetitive screeds; when he's not busy trying to 'hondle' a contract with Herr Gerdes, by re-writing - very jew like trait it is.

Quote:
This is closer to non interactive than non sequitur. Did you not see your own quote above my response, JewInARut? I can't believe you're still pretending this forum is somehow hindering you.
Yes, all this behaving as though we've got Roberta tied up in a basement somewheres, whipping him is getting old. Wait, I'd best be careful with that statement - the imagery might serve to make Bobby Mule's imagination wander into weird areas
 
Old July 21st, 2008 #769
Greg Gerdes
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Roberta:

"Or are you trying to tell us that in setting up this simple challenge – offering a money reward in exchange for digging up the remains of murdered greasy jews..."

What murdered greasy jews Roberta?

Can you show us just one of these "murdered greasy jews" you’re always talking about?

Just one greasy jew Roberta.

One.

Roberta:

“The only thing you have so far achieved by your challenge is to show what a bunch of sick puppies I and my HC butt-buddies are. And because you have found a foolproof way to make sure that the winning applicant has prompt and easy access to the reward money, you have succeed in showing that we’re also a bunch of frauds and that your challenge is foolproof and bulletproof. It's simply brilliant that you have set your challenge up in such a way that the winning applicant doesn't have to do a thing but sit back and watch 20 different checks magically appear in his mailbox without lifting a finger. Brilliant!"
 
Old July 21st, 2008 #770
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roberto Muehlenkamp View Post
Your idiotic "just one" demands for specific individual exhibits are irrelevant from the point of view of historical research and criminal investigation, because they contribute little if anything to the evidentiary record of the events in question and because proof of any amount of these exhibits related to the mass murder, body disposal and robbery digging that left them behind logically follows from the eyewitness, documentary and physical evidence which proves that mass murder, body disposal and robbery digging.
You mean: actually finding what you're asking for doesn't matter because Jew standards, that is, eyewitness testimony takes precedent over all things. This is Jewish law.

Quote:
Or are you trying to tell us that in setting up this sick challenge – offering a money reward in exhange for digging up the remains of murdered human beings – you are displaying the kind of contemptible behavior that you think would fit a "filthy greasy jew", the only difference being that you have less money to offer than you figure a "filthy greasy jew" would have? I wouldn’t be surprised if this were so, considering that throughout this discussion you have been displaying the very mendacity and cowardice that you claim are Jewish characteristics.
Are you still going to claim your argument is objective, Berty? The whole point of the challenge is to prove that no remains exist; we are certain that you and no other Jew will prove otherwise. This repulsive, grasping emotionalism is typical Jew behaviour.
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Old July 21st, 2008 #771
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Roberta (post #766):

"It’s for who makes a claim to provide the proof supporting that claim, asshole."

Really Roberta?

Then would you please provide the proof of:

Just one "huge mass grave" that contains just one percent of the alleged mass murder at Treblinka.

Just one body in a "wax-fat transformation" at Belzec.

Just one pound of crushed bone at Chelmno. (How about just one single tooth?)

Just one ounce of human ash at Sobibor.

Just one gassed jew from the entire "holocaust."

Just one filthy rich greasy jew / homosexual to match nafcash’s reward amount.

Are you too chicken-shit to show us the above Rertado?

Remember what you just said Roberta - "It’s for who makes a claim to provide the proof supporting that claim, asshole."

Are you too much of a coward to - get on with it?

BTW, has anyone else noticed Roberta's obsession with the word - asshole? (And with the faggot Elton John?)
 
Old July 21st, 2008 #772
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[quote=EireannGoddess;810670]
Quote:

The Mule faggot is NOT a "proud" German - he brags about some relative of his having fought for Gemany during the war - as though that gives his empty rhetoric the "cachet" of proof.
I think it was more repudiation than bragging; an uncle's war effort crapped on.

Quote:
Yes, all this behaving as though we've got Roberta tied up in a basement somewheres, whipping him is getting old. Wait, I'd best be careful with that statement - the imagery might serve to make Bobby Mule's imagination wander into weird areas
Did you read about the poor Jews in Norway? The night of plucking hell.
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Old July 21st, 2008 #773
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Gerdes View Post

Your not challenging the richest people in the world to match the reward amount that one man with just one little non-profit, 501 (c) (3) (exempt), Scientific / Historical Educational Organization and twenty supporters has come up with to reward the person who proves the provable.

Just think about that. Just one man with just one little non-profit, 501 (c) (3) (exempt), Scientific / Historical Educational Organization is showing the world that the billion dollar a year holocaust industry is a fraud and proving that the whole holocaust myth is just a hoax. Just one man with just one little non-profit, 501 (c) (3) (exempt), Scientific / Historical Educational Organization and twenty supporters has the holocaust industry and it's spurious shills in a hysterical tizzy.

I thought you were the president of a national association that included forensic criminologists, archeologists, historians, and skeptics.

Are you telling us the title is nothing more than a lie?
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Old July 21st, 2008 #774
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Slamin - see post # 393
 
Old July 21st, 2008 #775
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Ced:

"Keep on Brad Pitting, you great big asset."


Roberta just can't stop talking about him, can she?

It must be some kind of a homo / schoolgirl like crush.

She can't seem to stop talking about Elton John either.


BTW, did you hear that, even though Elton John is great on the piano - he really sucks on the organ?
 
Old July 22nd, 2008 #776
Roberto Muehlenkamp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
Roberta:

"Or are you trying to tell us that in setting up this simple challenge – offering a money reward in exchange for digging up the remains of murdered greasy jews..."
Still on crack, Gerdes? The statement in post # 766 under http://206.41.117.128/showpost.php?p...&postcount=766 reads as follows:

Quote:
Or are you trying to tell us that in setting up this sick challenge – offering a money reward in exhange for digging up the remains of murdered human beings – you are displaying the kind of contemptible behavior that you think would fit a "filthy greasy jew", the only difference being that you have less money to offer than you figure a "filthy greasy jew" would have? I wouldn’t be surprised if this were so, considering that throughout this discussion you have been displaying the very mendacity and cowardice that you claim are Jewish characteristics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
What murdered greasy jews Roberta?
The about 1,480,000 Jews that certain loonies claim were "transited" via Chelmno, Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka to the Nazi-occupied Soviet territories, even though all known eyewitness, documentary and physical evidence show these Jews to have been murdered at Chelmno, Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka and there’s not the slightest indication (although one could expect a huge paper trail and thousands upon thousands of eyewitnesses) that any transports left Chelmno, Belzec, Sobibor or Treblinka in the direction of the occupied Soviet territories or that any Jews having passed Chelmno, Belzec, Sobibor or Treblinka were resettled in the Nazi-occupied Soviet territories.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
Can you show us just one of these "murdered greasy jews" you’re always talking about?

Just one greasy jew Roberta.

One.
Not just one, but all that become apparent from the known documentary, eyewitness and physical evidence.

To illustrate how fucking idiotic your demand is, let’s talk about the Soviet GuLag camps, which Solshenitsyn-fan Gerdes obviously accepts as a proven fact.

Can you show us – in the sense of "tangible" physical evidence – "just one" GuLag mass grave?

I don’t think so.

Can you show us – again, in the sense of "tangible" physical evidence – "just one" dead body of a victim of Stalin’s penal camps?

I’d be surprised if you could.

Does this lead you to doubt the death toll of these camps that becomes apparent from recently discovered archival documents?

No, it doesn't.

On the contrary, you probably even maintain that mortality was much higher than what these documents show.

Are you beginning to realize how irrelevant and idiotic your "just one" – yelling is, Mr. Gerdes?

I hope so for you, because our reasonable readers have long reached this conclusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
Roberta:

“The only thing you have so far achieved by your challenge is to show what a bunch of sick puppies I and my HC butt-buddies are. And because you have found a foolproof way to make sure that the winning applicant has prompt and easy access to the reward money, you have succeed in showing that we’re also a bunch of frauds and that your challenge is foolproof and bulletproof. It's simply brilliant that you have set your challenge up in such a way that the winning applicant doesn't have to do a thing but sit back and watch 20 different checks magically appear in his mailbox without lifting a finger. Brilliant!"
What do we have here now, Gerdes in delirium tremens?

The statement in post # 766 under http://206.41.117.128/showpost.php?p...&postcount=766 that sent the chimp into the above hysterical fit of self-portraying and self-projecting invective (probably because he knows how true it is) reads as follows:

Quote:
The only thing you have so far achieved by your challenge is to show what a bunch of sick puppies you and your Nazi butt-buddies are. And unless you find a way to make sure that a winning applicant has prompt and easy access to the reward money, you will furthermore succeed in showing that you’re also a bunch of frauds and that your challenge is a hoax. Have you ever seen a challenge in which the winning applicant is expected to collect the reward money from 20-or-so clowns living in 20-or-so different places throughout the US? For if the supporters of the challenge are liars and charlatans like you (which they probably are), I don’t expect them to disburse their share voluntarily.
 
Old July 22nd, 2008 #777
Roberto Muehlenkamp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
Roberta (post #766):

"It’s for who makes a claim to provide the proof supporting that claim, asshole."

Really Roberta?

Then would you please provide the proof of:

Just one "huge mass grave" that contains just one percent of the alleged mass murder at Treblinka.

Just one body in a "wax-fat transformation" at Belzec.

Just one pound of crushed bone at Chelmno. (How about just one single tooth?)

Just one ounce of human ash at Sobibor.

Just one gassed jew from the entire "holocaust."
No problem. Any amount of the physical remains you mention that corresponds to the known mass murder and body disposal at each of these camps becomes apparent from the evidence mentioned hereafter.

***

I. Treblinka

I.1 See the evidence listed in my post # 172 under http://206.41.117.128/showpost.php?p...&postcount=172 .

I.2 See also the following evidence (insofar as not mentioned in post # 172) that is listed in post # 194 under http://206.41.117.128/showpost.php?p...&postcount=194 :

Quote:
Source One:

Polish site investigation reports of 13 November and 29 December 1945, as quoted in my article under http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...treblinka.html . Relevant excerpts, emphases mine:
Quote:
The largest of the craters produced by explosions (numerous fragments attest to the fact that these explosions were set off by bombs), which is at maximum 6 meters deep and has a diameter of about 25 meters – its walls give recognizable evidence of the presence of a large quantity of ashes as well as human remains – was further excavated in order to discover the depth of the pit in this part of the camp. Numerous human remains were found by these excavations, partially still in a state of decomposition.[208] The soil consists of ashes interspersed with sand, is of a dark gray color and granulous in form. During the excavations, the soil gave off an intense odor of burning and decay. At a depth of 7.5 meters the bottom was reached, which consisted of layers of unmixed sand. At this point the digging was stopped here.
Quote:
In the northwestern section of the area, the surface is covered for about 2 hectares by a mixture of ashes and sand. In this mixture, one finds countless human bones, often still covered with tissue remains, which are in a condition of decomposition. During the inspection, which I made with the assistance of an expert in forensic medicine, it was determined that the ashes are without any doubt of human origin (remains of cremated human bones). The examination of human skulls could discover no trace of wounding. At a distance of some 100 m, there is now an unpleasant odor of burning and decay.
Source Two:

Scan from Krege’s "forensic examination", as assessed by GPR expert Lawrence B. Conyers, see under http://www.vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=73168&page=2 [correct link: http://www.atheistparents.org/forum/...r=asc&start=25 ] (emphasis mine):
Quote:
I looked at the web site, and the image you sent. It is only one small part of his 'grid'. The picture shows him using a 200 MHz antenna and collecting about 1 meter spaced transects in a huge grid. That image is not processed, and only shows about a 5 meter long section in one line. And even in that profile it looks like a bunch of "things" in the ground on the right hand side that could easily be mass graves. It is apparent that this guy either does not know anything of GPR, or at the very least does not know how to process it. To really do a good job, the data need to be put into a 3-D cube of reflections and processed in a batch, including ALL the profiles collected. If you really wanted to get to the bottom of this you either need to get his data and let someone else process it, or re-collect it all and re-process your own data. This is NOT a scientific or representive study of the ground by any stretch.
Assessment of same source under http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=94929

Quote:
Originally Posted by sallyg
Significant purturbation of the "A" or topsoil horizon is present and the inconsistent returns from the "B" or subsoil horizon certainly merits investigation. As an example of undisturbed soil, this fails any test.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obdicut
Mr. Mills,

Since the images do show disturbance of the topsoil consistent with graves (in the most generous sense), I hope he didn't follow your advice.
Source Three

Document mentioned in Stephen Potyondi’s article under http://www.holocaust-history.org/ope...tion-treblinka , emphasis mine:

Quote:
A final document, though it gives no exact indications of numbers, is illustrative when it comes to giving an idea of just how many Jews were being killed. It is the remark of the Wehrmacht commander of Ostrow recorded in the first war diary of the General Quartermaster of the Military Commander in the Generalgouvernement on 24 October 1942.

It reads: "OK Ostrow reports that the Jews in Treblinka are not sufficiently buried and therefore an unbearable smell of corpses befouls the air."51

Ostrow, it is significant to point out, was 20 kilometres from Treblinka.
A scan of this document can be viewed under
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/...blinka/images/

Source Four

Deposition of Franz Suchomel, referred to in the judgment at the 1st Düsseldorf Treblinka trial that is quoted under http://rodohforum.yuku.com/topic/250...nka-Trial.html , my translation:

Quote:
In what orders of magnitude they were working at Treblinka furthermore becomes apparent from a telling account by the defendant Suchomel about the opening of a corpse pit. As he credibly states, he once was in the upper camp at the beginning of 1943, when one of the gigantic corpse pits was being opened because the corpses were now to be burned. On this occasion, Suchomel further states, his comrade Pötzinger, the deputy commander of the death camp, told him that this one corpse pit alone contained about 80,000 corpses.
Source Five

Photos taken by Treblinka II deputy commander Kurt Franz, assessed by Alex Bay under http://www.holocaust-history.org/Treblinka/appendixd/: [correct link: http://www.holocaust-history.org/Treblinka/appendixd/ ]

Quote:
A mass grave can be seen close up in Figure D-1. It is evicent in the picture that the horizons caused by the layering of different colored soils. These horizons can also be seen in other Kurt Franz pictures and they serve to reveal grave pits at a greater distance. They can be seen in figures D4 and D5. An enlargement of the area in which layering can be seen may be found in Figure D-5. The white arrows in D4 point to a deep excavation. The two pictures in the figure compose an inadvertent stereo pair. Viewing the image in this mode permits one to see the small region common to the two images in relief. A nearly vertical wall rises in the v-shaped area framed by the soil being excavated. Layering can also be seen. Figure D5 is an enlargement and the entire extent of an excavation can be seen. In this image the layering is not really visible, although the rim of the excavation is easy to see. It turns out that the grave appearing in these last two figures is the same one.
Source Six

Documents mentioning robbery-digging of the Treblinka graves, quoted in the Polish newspaper article translated under http://rodohforum.yuku.com/reply/925...ml#reply-92506 , emphases mine:
Quote:
We gain insight into the "Activity Calendar of the Siedlce Section of the NSZ Task Force for Special Actions" [Narodowe Siły Zbrojne - National Armed Forces, right-wing nationalist, anti-communist Polish partisan organization - translator's note] for the year 1946. Under the date 26 February we read: "The action for raising contributions from people who ravished the graves in Treblinka was carried out together with the men from the section of 'Władek', the regional commandant of the Sokolow section."

On 27 February: "For the second time we raised contributions together with the people of 'Władek', this time from people who ravish the graves in Treblinka and live in villages in the surroundings of Kosów Lacki. For their comradely assistance the group of 'Zych' received 30 000 złoty to buy weapons."
Source Seven

Interview of former Treblinka commander Franz Stangl by Gitta Sereny, quoted in Sereny, Into that Darkness, page 201, emphasis mine:

Quote:
“So you didn’t feel they were human beings
“Cargo, “ he said tonelessly. “They were cargo. “ He raised and dropped his hand in a gesture of despair Both our voices had dropped. It was one of the few times in those weeks of talks that he made no effort to cloak his despair, and his hopeless grief allowed a moment of sympathy.
“When do you think you began to think of them as cargo? The way you spoke earlier, of the day when you first came to Treblinka, the horror you felt seeing the dead bodies everywhere - they weren’t cargo’ to you then, were they?”
“I think it started the day I first saw the Totenlager in Treblinka. I remember Wirth standing there, next to the pits full of blue-black corpses. It had nothing to do with humanity - it couldn’t have; it was a mass - a mass of rotting flesh. Wirth said, ‘What shall we do with this garbage?’ I think unconsciously that started me thinking of them as cargo.”
There are more sources, but this should do. Seven sources that have nothing to do with each other, one of them (Source Two) even provided by someone who tried to prove there had been no mass murder at Treblinka, tell us that there were mass graves at Treblinka.

How do you explain this, Mr. Gerdes?
II. Belzec

II.1 Documentary and eyewitness evidence quoted or referred to in my article Carlo Mattogno on Belzec Archaeological Research starting under http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...on-belzec.html , namely the following:

II.1.1 The diary entries of Wilhelm Cornides, English translation available under http://www.death-camps.org/belzec/rawacornides.html. Excerpts quoted under http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...belzec_27.html :

Quote:
"At ten minutes past noon I saw a transport train run into the station. On the roof and running boards sat guards with rifles. One could see from a distance that the cars were jammed full of people. I turned and walked along the whole train: it consisted of 35 cattle cars and one passenger car.
In each of the cars there were at least 60 Jews (in the case of the enlisted men’s or prisoner transports these wagons would hold 40 men; however, the benches had been removed and one could see that those who were locked in here had to stand pressed together). Some of the doors were opened a crack, the windows criss-crossed with barbed wire. Among the locked-in people there were a few men and most of those were old; everything else was women, girls and children. Many children crowded at the windows and the narrow door openings. The youngest were surely not more than two years old.
As soon as the train halted, the Jews attempted to pass out bottles in order to get water. The train, however, was surrounded by SS guards, so that no one could come near. At that moment a train arrived from the direction of Jaroslaw; the travellers streamed toward the exit without bothering about the transport. A few Jews who were busy loading a car for the armed forces waved their caps to the locked-in people.
I talked to a policeman on duty at the railway station. Upon my question as to where the Jews actually came from, he answered:
"Those are probably the last ones from Lwow. That has been going on now for three weeks uninterruptedly. In Jaroslaw they only let eight remain, no one knows why."
I asked: "How far are they going?" Then he said: "To Belzec." "And then?"
"Poison." I asked: "Gas?" He shrugged his shoulders. Then he said only:
"At the beginning they always shot them, I believe."
Quote:
6.20 pm. We passed camp Belzec. Before then, we travelled for some time through a tall pine forest. When the woman called, "Now it comes!" one could see a high hedge of fir trees. A strong sweetish odour could be made out distinctly. "But they are stinking already", says the woman. "Oh nonsense, it is only the gas", the railway policeman said laughing.
Meanwhile - we had gone on about 200 metres - the sweetish odour was transformed into a strong smell of something burning. "That is from the crematory", says the policeman. A short distance further on the fence stopped. In front of it, one could see a guard house with an SS post. A double track led into the camp. One track branched off from the main line, the other ran over a turntable from the camp to a row of sheds some 250 metres away. A freight car happened to stand on the table. Several Jews were busy turning the disc. SS guards, rifle under the arm, stood by. One of the sheds was open; one could distinctly see that it was filled to the ceiling with bundles of clothes. As we went on, I looked back one more time. The fence was too high to see anything at all. The woman says that sometimes, while going by, one could see smoke rising from the camp, but I could notice nothing of the sort. My estimate is that the camp measures about 800 by 400 metres."
Quote:
A policeman in the town-hall restaurant in Chelm on 1 September 1942 said:
"The policemen who guard the Jewish transports are not allowed inside the camp; only the SS and the Ukrainian Sonderdienst (a police formation comprising Ukrainian auxiliaries) do so. Thereby, they have created a good business. Recently a Ukrainian was here who had a great wad of notes, clocks, and gold – everything imaginable. They find all of this when they gather and ship the clothing."
In answer to the question, in which way were the Jews killed, the policeman answered:
"Someone tells them that they must be deloused. Then they undress and enter a room into which at first a heatwave is let in, and thereby they already have received one small dose of gas. It is enough to act as a local anaesthetic. The rest then follows. And then they are immediately burned."
II.1.2 The testimonies of Kurt Gerstein, Heinrich Gley, Wilhelm Pfannenstiel, Franz Stangl and Alfred Schluch, excerpts quoted under http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...belzec_27.html and http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...belzec_28.html .

Gerstein:
Quote:
The naked corpses were carried on wooden stretchers to pits only a few metres away, measuring 100 x 20 x 12 metres. After a few days the corpses welled up and a short time later they collapsed, so that one could throw a new layer of bodies upon them. Then ten centimetres of sand were spread over the pit, so that a few heads and arms still rose from it here and there.
Gley:
Quote:
Then began the general exhumation and burning of the corpses; it should have lasted from November 1942 until March 1943. The burnings were carried out day and night without interruption, first at one and then at two fireplaces. One fireplace allowed for burning about 2,000 corpses within 24 hours. About two weeks after the beginning of the incineration action the second fireplace was erected. Thus on average there were burned about 300,000 bodies at the one fireplace over a period of 5 months and 240,000 bodies at the other fireplace over a period of 4 months. Of course these are only approximate estimates. It should be correct to put the total number of corpses at 500,000.
The incineration of the corpses again dug out was a process so abominable humanly, esthetically and in what concerns the smell, that the phantasy of people who today are used to live under civil conditions probably is not sufficient to imagine this horror.
Pfannenstiel:
Quote:
Through these [doors] Jewish detainees took out the corpses and threw them into large pits. The corpses were burned in these pits. […] From my point of view, the incineration of the corpses at the time was still quite imperfect.
Quote:
From the inspection site the corpses were taken directly to deep mass graves that had been dug in the vicinity of the extermination installation. When the pits were rather full, the corpses were doused with gasoline – it may have been some other flammable liquid – and were then lit. I could only determine that the corpses burned just partly. Then another layer of earth was thrown over the corpses and then fresh corpses were placed into the same pit.
Stangl:
Quote:
Wirth was not in his office, they said that he was up in the camp. The man I talked to said that one of the pits had overflown. They had thrown too many bodies inside, and the decomposition had gone too fast, so that the liquid gathering below had pushed the bodies up, to the surface and above, and the corpses had rolled down the hill. I saw some of them. – Oh God, it was awful …
Schluch:
Quote:
The size of a pit I can only indicate approximately. It should have been about 30 meters long and 20 meters wide. The depth is difficult to estimate because the side walls were at an angle and on the other hand the earth taken out had been piled up at the edge. I think, however, that the pit may have been 5 to 6 meters deep. All in all one could have comfortably placed a house inside this pit.
II.1.3 Höfle’s radio report to Heim of 11 January 1943, translated and commented under http://www.death-camps.org/reinhard/prodecodes.html :

Quote:
The next radio message to be intercepted about “Aktion Reinhard” occurs in January 1943. Two partially intercepted messages exist, of which one is a fragment, but there can be little doubt that the two messages would have been more or less identical in their content. On 11 January 1943 at 10.00 a.m. a radio message marked “Geheime Reichssache” from SS-Sturmbannführer Höfle in Lublin addressed to SS-Obersturmbannführer Eichmann at RSHA Berlin was partially intercepted. At 10.05 a.m. Höfle sent a second message also marked “Geheime Reichssache” to SS-Obersturmbannführer Heim of the BdS office in Krakow; Heim was the deputy BdS under SS-Oberführer Dr Eberhard Schöngarth. The radio message to Heim is a 14 day report (for the 14 days prior to 31 December 1942) for “Einsatz Reinhart” and a year-end report, quoting a series of numbers against a series of letters. The author believes these figures provide an accurate reflection of the number of victims of the “Einsatz Reinhart” program to the end of 1942:


Letter and 14 day report year-end report

Camp i.d. to 31.12.1942 1942 total



L – Lublin 12761 24733

B – Belzec 0 434508

S – Sobibor 515 101370

T – Treblinka 10335 713555*

total: 23611 1274166

(* even radio operators and decoding people are fallible; in the decode itself the number is 71355, however this does not give proper addition, 713555 was the correct number.)

These radio messages are crucial in our understanding of the number of victims to the end of 1942 and indicate how the Reinhard camps were operating in this period. The total 1942 killing figure of 1,274,166 victims agrees completely with the same figure quoted in the so-called Korherr Report to Reichsführer-SS Himmler of 23 March 1943, where this exact number of victims “passed…through the camps in the General Government”. Peter Witte together with the author have written fully on these two messages elsewhere.18
II.1.4 Jäcklein’s report about "Resettlement from Kolomea to Belzec" dated 14 September 1942, quoted after Mattogno’s Belzec book and commented under http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...on-belzec.html :

Quote:
On September 14, 1942, Zugwachtmann der Schutzpolizei (railroad guard of the protection police) Josef Jäcklein wrote a report, “Resettlement from Kolomea to Belzec.” He escorted a train of 51 cars loaded with 8,200 Jews that left Kolomea at 20:50 hours on September 10. The Jews quickly sought ways to escape, ripping the barbed wire from the openings of the cars and opening up holes in the walls, which caused Jäcklein to cable ahead to Stanislau station to have boards and nails ready. On arrival at that station, the train stopped one hour and a half for the repairs. A few stations farther along, the Jews had again ripped out the barbed wire and made new holes, so the train stopped again. Jäcklein relates:
“When the train left, I even noticed that in one car hammers and pliers were being used. Questioning the Jews as to why they still had these tools, they declared that they had been told that they would be able to put them to good use at their next destination.”
Again and again, at every stop, the train had to stop for repairs to the car walls. Finally the train arrived at Lemberg/Lwów, where Jäcklein turned over “9 cars marked L and destined for the forced labor camp at Lemberg” to SS Obersturmführer (senior lieutenant) Schulte, but another 1,000 Jews came on board. When the train moved on, escape attempts resumed. As the escort had expended all their ammunition, they had to use “stones” and “bayonets” to prevent escapes. The transport took place under catastrophic conditions. Jäcklein writes in this respect:
“The ever increasing panic among the Jews, caused by the strong heat, overloading of the cars with up to 220 Jews, the smell of corpses – 2,000 dead were counted when the train was unloaded – made the transport nearly impossible.”
The train arrived at Belzec at 6:45 p.m. the following day and was turned over to the camp authorities at 7:30 p.m.. Unloading the cars took until 10 p.m.324
II.1.5 Fritz Reuter's notes of 17 March 1942 about a conversation with Hauptsturmführer Höfle on the previous day, quoted after Mattogno’s Belzec book and commented under http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...on-belzec.html :

Quote:
"I arranged for a talk with Hstuf. Höfle for Monday, the 16th of March 1942, namely at 17:30 hours. In the course of the discussion the following It would be expedient to divide the transports of Jews arriving in the Lublin district at the station of origin into employable and unemployable Jews. If it is not possible to make this distinction at the departure station, then the transport will have to be divided in Lublin in the manner mentioned above.
All unemployable Jews are to come to Bezec [Belzec], the outermost border station in the Zamosc district.
Hstuf. Höfle is thinking of building a large camp in which the employable Jews can be registered in a file system according to their occupations and requisitioned from there.
Piaski is being made Jew-free and will be the collection point for the Jews coming out of the Reich.
Trawnicki [Trawniki] is not at present occupied by Jews.
H. asks where on the D blin-Trawnicki route 60,000 Jews can be unloaded. Informed of the Jewish transports now departing from here, H. explained that of the 500 Jews arriving in Susiec, those who were unemployable could be sorted out and sent to Bezec. According to a government teletype dated March 4, 1942, a Jewish transport, whose destination was the Trawnicki station, is rolling out of the Protectorate. These Jews are not unloaded in Trawnicki, but have been brought to Izbiza. An inquiry of the Zamosz district, asking to be able to request 200 Jews from there for work, was answered in the affirmative by H.
In conclusion he stated that he could accept 4-5 transports of 1,000 Jews to the terminal station Bezec daily. These Jews would cross the border and never return to the General Government."
II.1.6 Goebbels’ diary entry of 27 March 1942, quoted after Prof. Browning’s expert opinion under http://www.holocaustdenialontrial.co...e/browning/500 and commented under http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...on-belzec.html :

Quote:
Beginning with Lublin, the Jews in the General Government are now being evacuated eastward. The procedure is a pretty barbaric one and not to be described here more definitely. Not much will remain of the Jews. On the whole it can be said about 60 percent of them will have to be liquidated whereas only about 40 percent can be used for forced labor.
II.1.7 The reports by the Oberfeldkommandant of Lwow (Lemberg) in March, April and October 1942, quoted after Prof. Browning’s expert opinion under http://www.holocaustdenialontrial.co...e/browning/500 and commented under http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...n-belzec.html:

Quote:
The Oberfeldkommandant in Lwow (Lemberg) reported on March 19, 1942:

Within the Jewish population of Lemberg a noticeable unrest has spread in regard to a deportation action that has begun, through which some 30,[000] elderly and other unemployed Jews shall be seized and allegedly transferred to a territory near Lublin. To what extent this evacuation can be equated with a decimation remains to be seen.

5.3.9 The Oberfeldkommandant reported the following month:

The Jewish population displays the deepest depression, which is completely understandable because on the one hand in various locations in the district the well-known actions against the Jews occur again and on the other hand in Lemberg the temporarily interrupted resettlement of Jews resumes; in the meantime it is whispered also among the Jews that the evacuees never reach the resettlement territory that is alleged to them as the destination.

5.3.10 The deportations from Galicia broke off during the months of May, June, and July 1942, but resumed in August. In October the Oberfeldkommandant reported again:

The resettlement actions continue undiminished. The Jews are informed of their fate. Indicative is the statement of a member of the Lwow Jewish council: We all carry our death certificates in our pocket--only the date of death is not yet filled out.
II.2 Physical evidence

II.2.1 Physical evidence documented in a report dated October 12, 1945 by the Regional Investigative Judge of the district court of Zamosc, Czeslaw Godzieszewski, quoted on pages 79 ff. of Mattogno’s Belzec book:

Quote:
On October 12, 1945, the Regional Investigative Judge of the district court of Zamosc, Czeslaw Godzieszewski, presented an “Account of the diggings in the cemetery of the Belzec extermination camp,” in which he set down the findings from the inspection of the Belzec camp he had made that day, aided by 12 workers. In this context, he wrote:
"The opening labeled No. 1 was taken down to a depth of 8 m and a width of 10 m and attained the bottom level of the graves. During the operation, at a depth of about 2 m, we struck the first layer of ash stemming from incinerated human bodies, mixed with sand. This layer was about 1 m thick. The next layer of ash was discovered at a depth of 4 – 6 meters. In the ash removed, some charred remains of human bodies were found, such as hands and arms, women’s hair, as well as human bones not totally burnt. We also recovered pieces of burnt wood. In trench No. 1, the layer of human ash stopped at a depth of 6 meters. The opening labeled No. 2 was taken down to a depth of 6 meters. In this trench, the layer of human ash began at a depth of 1.5 m and continued down to a depth of some 5 m, with occasional breaks. Here, too, the ash contained human hair, part of a human body, pieces of clothing, and remnants of incompletely burnt bones. Openings labeled Nos. 3 and 4 were freed to a depth of 3 meters. In hole No. 4, at a depth of 80 cm, we found a human skull with remnants of skin and hair, as well as two shinbones and a rib. Furthermore, at a level of between one and three meters, these holes yielded human ash mixed with sand and fragments of incompletely burnt human bones. Openings labeled Nos. 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9 were dug to a depth of 2 m, but showed only human ash mixed with sand and human bones, such as jawbones and shinbones. Throughout all the excavations it was observed that the camp cemetery had already been disturbed by wildcat diggings; this is borne out by the fact that the layers of human ash are not uniform but mixed with sand. The recovered human bones; the bodily remains, which where in a state of complete decomposition; and the ash were collected in a common location to await the arrival of the district surgeon. Work was stopped at 17:30 hours."
The next day, October 13, 1945, the findings were inspected by the coroner. The subsequent report describes primarily the results of the examination performed by the judge and the coroner:
"During the inspection of the area of the extermination camp, particularly during the excavations at the place of the cemetery on October 12, 1945, a large number of human bones were found, such as skulls, parts of skulls, vertebrae, ribs, collarbones, shoulder blades, arm bones, lower legs, wrists, fingers, pelvic bones, thigh bones, lower legs, and foot bones. Some of the bones mentioned are either partly burnt or had not been burnt at all. Except for a few skulls showing rotting scalp and hair, the majority of the bones are free from soft tissue. Among the remains of human bodies recovered on October 12, 1945, we identified two forearms and a lumbar portion of the backbone with some soft tissue and traces of carbonization. The lumbar section belongs to an adult, whereas the forearms come from a child a few years old. From the size of the various bones one can conclude that they belong to persons of different age groups, from two-year-olds up to very old people, as borne out by toothless jaws and numerous dentures. Among the jawbones found there was one partially burnt specimen containing milk teeth as well as incipient permanent teeth, which indicates that it belongs to a person 7 to 8 years of age. No traces of bullet holes or other mechanical wounds were found on the skulls. The long bones show no traces either of gunshot wounds or fractures. Because of the advanced state of decomposition it was very difficult to say to what organs the recovered shapeless portions of soft tissue from human bodies might belong. In a hole dug by the local population in a search for gold and valuables, two lower legs belonging to a two-year-old child were discovered. These members are partly decomposed, partly mummified. The area of the cemetery, in particular the wildcat holes, is covered with layers of human ash of varying breadth, which stem from the incineration of human corpses and wood; they are intermingled with sand in varying proportions. The color of the ash varies between light-ash and dark gray; the ash has a heavy consistency and smells of decomposing human bodies. In the ash, charred human bones as well as pieces of charcoal are clearly visible. In the lower strata of the ash the smell of decomposition is more pronounced than in the layers nearer the surface. The hair discovered belongs mainly to women, as shown by their length and by the type of arrangement (braids and buns fixed with hairpins). In addition to natural hair, we encountered ladies’ wigs as well. With this, the inspection was terminated."
II.2.2 Physical evidence documented in Prof. Andrzej Kola’s report headed Belzec. The Nazi Camp for Jews in the Light of Archaeological Sources. Excavations 1997-1999, which is discussed in my article starting under http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...on-belzec.html, including the following:

a) Plan of archaeological probing drills, link under http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...belzec_23.html

b) Plans and sections of all 33 mass graves found by Prof. Kola at Belzec, links under http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...belzec_23.html

c) Schematic representations of core drill samples, links under http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...007754580.html

d) Descriptions of mass graves numbered 1, 4, 13, 25, 28, 32, 3, 10, 20, and 27, quoted under http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...007754580.html

e) Descriptions of mass graves numbered 2, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 11, 12, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 21, 22, 23, 24, 26, 29, 30, 31 and 33, partially quoted under http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...belzec_30.html

II.2.3 Physical evidence documented in a furious complaint article by Rabbi Avi Weiss, available under http://www.hir.org/amcha/belzec.html and partially quoted under http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...on-belzec.html (see also articles about the Belzec memorial project under http://www.death-camps.org/belzec/belzeclawsuit.html and http://www.death-camps.org/belzec/lawsuit.html )

II.2.4 Physical evidence documented in photographs shown under http://www.death-camps.org/belzec/buildingsite.html (photos captioned "Remnants" and "Autumn 2003: Marked Mass Graves")

II.2.5 Physical evidence documented in photographs available in the archives of The Ghetto Fighters House and featured in my RODOH thread http://rodohforum.yuku.com/topic/5963 (captions from The Ghetto Fighters House):
The bones of Belzec camp victims, exposed after a rainfall in the area.
http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5250_1_web.jpg

The skulls and bones of Belzec camp victims, brought to a bunker on the grounds of the camp.
http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5252_1_web.jpg

The bones of Belzec camp victims, exposed following rainfall.
http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5275_1_web.jpg

The bones of Belzec camp victims that were exposed after rains.
http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5276_1_web.jpg

II.2.6 Physical evidence documented in air photographs of the Belzec mass graves area, assessed by Alex Bay under http://www.holocaust-history.org/belzec/deathcamp/index

III. Chelmno

III.1 Documentary and eyewitness evidence first mentioned in my Topix post # 655 under http://www.topix.com/forum/history/T...H7P8C/p32#c655

III.1.1 Letter by Willy Just to Walter Rauff dated 5 June 1942, regarding gas van operations at Chelmno extermination camp.
http://www.holocaust-history.org/194...-spezialwagen/
English translation, emphases mine:

Quote:
I. Note:

Conc.: Technical adjustments to special vans at present in
page 1

service and to those that are in production.

Since December 1941, ninety-seven thousand have been processed, using three vans, without any defects showing up in the vehicles. The explosion that we know took place at Kulmhof is to be considered an isolated case. The cause can be attributed to improper operation. In order to avoid such incidents, special instructions have been addressed to the services concerned. Safety has been increased considerably as a result of these instructions.

Previous experience has shown that the following adjustments would be useful:

1.) In order to facilitate the rapid distribution of CO, as well as to avoid a buildup of pressure, two slots, ten by one centimeters, will be bored at the top of the rear wall. The excess pressure would be controlled by an easily adjustable hinged metal valve on the outside of the vents.

2.) The normal capacity of the vans is nine to ten per square meter [ = 10.8 sq. ft.]. The capacity of the larger special Saurer vans is

page 2

not so great. The problem is not one of overloading but of off-road maneuverability on all terrains, which is severely diminished in this van. It would appear that a reduction in the cargo area is necessary. This can be achieved by shortening the compartment by about one meter. The problem cannot be solved by merely reducing the number of subjects treated, as has been done so far. For in this case a longer running time is required, as the empty space also needs to be filled with CO. On the contrary, were the cargo area smaller, but fully occupied, the operation would take considerably less time, because there would be no empty space.

3.) The pipe that connects the exhaust to the van tends to rust, because it is eaten away from the inside by liquids that flow into it. To avoid this the nozzle should be so arranged as to point downward. The liquids will thus be prevented from flowing into [the pipe].

page 3

4.) To facilitate the cleaning of the vehicle, an opening will be made in the floor to allow for drainage. It will be closed by a watertight cover about twenty to thirty centimeters in diameter, fitted with an elbow siphon that will allow for the drainage of thin liquids. The upper part of the elbow pipe will be fitted with a sieve to avoid obstruction. Thicker dirt can be removed through the large drainage hole when the vehicle is cleaned. The floor of the vehicle can be tipped slightly. In this way all the liquids can be made to flow toward the center and be prevented from entering the pipes.

5.) The observation windows that have been installed up to now could be eliminated, as they are hardly ever used. Considerable time will be saved in the production of the new vans by avoiding the difficult fitting of the window and its airtight lock.

6.) Greater protection is needed for the lighting system. The grille should cover the lamps high enough up to make it impossible to break the bulb. It seems that these lamps are hardly ever turned on, so the users have suggested that they could be done away with. Experience shows, however, that when the back door is closed and it gets dark inside, the load

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pushes hard against the door. The reason for this is that when it becomes dark inside the load rushes toward what little light remains. This hampers the locking of the door. It has also been noticed that the noise provoked by the locking of the door is linked to the fear aroused by the darkness. It is therefore expedient to keep the lights on before the operation and during the first few minutes of its duration. Lighting is also useful for night work and for the cleaning of the interior of the van.

7.) To facilitate the rapid unloading of the vehicles, a removable grid is to be placed on the floor. It will slide on rollers on a U-shaped rail. It will be removed and put in position by means of a small winch placed under the vehicle. The firm charged with the alterations has stated that it is not able to continue for the moment, due to a lack of staff and materials. Another firm will have to be found.

The technical changes planned for the vehicles already in operation will be carried out when and as major repairs to these vehicles prove necessary. The alterations in the ten Saurer vehicles already ordered will be carried out as far as possible. The manufacturer made it clear in a meeting that structural alterations, with the exception of minor ones, cannot be carried out for the moment. An attempt must therefore be made to find another firm that can carry out, on at least

page 5

one of these ten vehicles, the alterations and adjustments that experience has proved to be necessary. I suggest that the firm in Hohenmauth be charged with the execution.

Due to present circumstances, we shall have to expect a later date of completion for this vehicle. It will then not only be kept available as a model but also be used as a reserve vehicle. Once it has been tested, the other vans will be withdrawn from service and will undergo the same alterations.

II. To Gruppenleiter II D
SS-Obersturmbannführer Rauff
for examination and decision.

by order of
Just
June 4/6.
Wa
III.1.2. Letter by Gauleiter Arthur Greiser to Himmler dated 1 May 1942, mentioning the "special treatment" of 100,000 Jews from his district about to be completed, and requesting permission to treat 35,000 Poles with open tuberculosis in the same manner:
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...r-greiser.html (emphases added):

Quote:
It will be possible to conclude the action of special treatment of about 100,000 Jews in the area of my Gau, authorized by yourself with the agreement of the head of the Reichssicherheitshauptamt, SS-Obergruppenführer Heydrich, within the next 2-3 months. I hereby ask for authorization to use the existing and trained special detachment after the Jewish action in order to free the Gau of a danger that takes a more catastrophic shape every week.
There are 230,000 identified ethnic Poles with tuberculosis in the Gau area. The number of Poles with open tuberculosis is estimated at ca. 35 000. […]
Though it is not possible to tackle this popular plague in the Old Reich with corresponding draconian measures, I think I can take the responsibility of proposing to you that here in the Warthegau the cases of open tuberculosis among the Polish people are extirpated.
III.1.3. Further documents about the murderous purpose of "Sonderkommando Lange": http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...urpose-of.html

III.1.4. Eyewitness testimonies about the use of gas vans at Chelmno: http://rodohforum.yuku.com/topic/2463

Walter Burmeister
Quote:
[...]The vans were medium size Renault trucks with Otto engines. They were hard to drive because they didnt have so big a turning circle. The temporarily added third van must have been a heavy one. The vans had a box-like buildup with a big two-wing door at the back side, similar to furniture vans.[...]
Walter Piller
Quote:
[...]During the drive the driver Laabs opened a valve, through which gas streamed in, which killed those inside within 2-3 minutes. These were gases that had been created by the gasoline motor.[...]
Polish mechanics referred to by German historian Peter Witte
Quote:
Polish mechanics, who were personally ordered to repair a gas van, precisely described exactly the huge petrol motor and its consumption: The motor of this car uses 75 litres of petrol per 100 km, that is, twice the consumption of normal motors.
Mordka Zurawski
Quote:
I pulled the corpses out of the van and could only see the interior. After the door had been opened, we had to wait about eight minutes before we could go inside. I could not tell whether they added some (chemical) agents to the gasoline.
Bruno Israel
Quote:
I wish to point out that the exhaust pipe entered the inside of the van through the floor, so the exhaust fumes, after the negine had been started, entered the vehicle killing all those inside. I do not know if the gasoline was mixed with chloroform, ether or other substances.
III.1.5. Excerpt from the judgment at the trial against former members of the Chelmno staff before District Court of Bonn, German Federal Republic, mentioning the documentary evidence used by the court to establish the number of people killed at Chelmno: http://rodohforum.yuku.com/reply/384...l#reply-38440:

Quote:
The number of victims

The first camp period 1941 1943

a) About the number of Jewish persons brought to Chelmno from 5 December 1941 to mid-January 1942 from the closer surroundings, including Kolo, Bugaj and Dabie, there are no written documents, and neither are there data from witnesses or defendants that seem reliable.
On the other hand the population statistics of the Lodz Ghetto provide information about the scope of the transports to Chelmno that were carried out in the time from 16 January to 15 May 1942. They contain the following figures:
January 10,003
February 7,025
March 24,695
April 2,353
May 10,914 [86]
Regarding the month May these data are corroborated by a listing from the German Reichsbahn dated 19 May 1942, which records a total number of 10,993 Jews taken away.[87]
Thus for the mentioned period there results a total number of 54,990 Jews, which coincides with the number stated by the Lodz State Police office in a report dated 9 June 1942, around 55,000. In this report the following is stated:
In the course of forming the Gau ghetto it was first necessary to make room for the Jews to be moved in there. For this purpose a larger number of Jews not able to work were evacuated from the ghetto and handed over to the special detachment. From the Polish Jews a total of 44,152 were moved out since 16 January 1942. From the 19,848 Jews that had been taken to the local ghetto from the Old Reich, the Ostmark and the Protectorate Bohemia and Moravia in October 1941, 10,993 were evacuated, so that now room has been made for ca. 55,000 Jews in the ghetto. [88]
To this number there must be added about 5,000 Gypsies, who according to the credible statements of witnesses G. (who at the time worked in the Lodz Ghettos administration as representative of the Jews Eldest) and Fuchs (at that time chief inspector at the State Police office Lodz) were evacuated from the Lodz ghetto and killed in Chelmno.
The transports from the rural districts, which were carried out in the time from May to August and according to the credible statements of witness H. (at the time captain of the Uniformed Police stationed in Leslau) and witness Z. (at the time domiciled in Poddembice) also included the cities Leslau with about 4,000 and Poddembice with about 3,000 Jews, are mentioned in two reports from the Lodz State Police office. In the already mentioned report of 9 June 1942 the following is mentioned right after the part just quoted:
Hereafter the cleaning-up of the rural districts was undertaken. First about 9,000 Jews were evacuated from the Lentchtz district. Only 1,000 remained in Ozorkow, who were urgently required there for carrying out Wehrmacht tasks. The Lentschtz district is thus to be considered basically free of Jews. In the further course of the cleaning-up of the rural districts the Litzmannstadt district was now tackled. In this district there were Jews left only in Lwenstadt and Strickau. For reasons of convenience all Jews from Strickau were first resettled to Lwenstadt. From the Jews that now were in the Lwenstadt Ghetto, about 6,000, around 3,000 were evacuated as not able to work, while the remainder, which consists of skilled workers, was taken to the local ghetto and already put to work. As preliminary conclusion of the cleaning-up of the rural districts the city Pabianice was cleaned of Jews. Here around 3,200 Jews were evacuated, the rest of 4,000 Jews was taken to the local ghetto.
In a further report from this office dated 3 October 1942 the following is stated:
After the rural districts became free of Jews through evacuation in the month August
This report thereafter provides information about the further evacuations from the Lodz Ghetto in September 1942, as it states the following:
there was another evacuation of about 15,700 Jews sick and unable to work from the Litzmannstadt Ghetto [89]
With the evacuation of 15,700 Jews in September 1942 the total number of Jews transported from the Lodz Ghetto increases to around 70,000. This number, established on hand of the above-mentioned documents, coincides with the population loss that the ghetto suffered in the mentioned period without the normal deaths, according to the statements of witnesses G. and Fuchs.
About the scope of the transports in the time from October 1942 to March 1943 there are no written documents. Specific data from witnesses and defendants that would seem reliable are also missing in this respect.
b) The total number of people killed in Chelmno becomes apparent from further documents that confirm and complement the mentioned partial numbers. In this connection a letter from Gauleiter Greiser to Himmler dated 1 May 1942 is of significance, in which the following is stated:
Reichsfhrer! It will be possible to conclude the action of special treatment of about 100,000 Jews in the area of my Gau, authorized by yourself with the agreement of the head of the Reichssicherheitshauptamt, SS-Obergruppenfhrer Heydrich, within the next 2-3 months. [90]
The already mentioned secret note of the RSHA dated 5 June 1942 [91] about suggestions for technical improvements for gas vans shows that the number of 100,000 Jews killed, mentioned by Greiser, had almost been reached at this point in time. For the following is stated there:
Conc.: Technical adjustments to special vans at present in service and to those that are in production.
Since December 1941, ninety-seven thousand have been processed, using three vans, without any defects showing up in the vehicles. The explosion that we know took place at Kulmhof is to be considered an isolated case. The cause can be attributed to improper operation. In order to avoid such incidents, special instructions have been addressed to the services concerned. Safety has been increased considerably as a result of these instructions.
This part of the secret note visibly refers to the camp Chelmno, because it correctly states the start of the extermination action (December 1941) as well as the number of gas vans (three vans used) and brings these data into direct connection with the explosion of a gas van in Chelmno, which is also reported by some witnesses and defendants.
A summary listing of the Jews killed up to 1 January 1943 is contained in the statistical report by the witness Dr. Korherr about The Final Solution of the European Jewish Question, which he prepared at the time as Inspector for Statistics with the Reichsfhrer-SS. In this report a total of 145,301 Jews sifted through the camps in the Warthegau is mentioned. The following is stated here:
4. Transportation of Jews from the eastern provinces to the Russian East: ...... 1 449 692 Jews
The following numbers were sifted
through the camps in the Generalgouvernement ...... 1 274 166 Jews
through the camps in the Warthegau ...... 145 301 Jews.
As Dr. Korherr has credibly stated, the number of 145,301 Jews, like all other numbers in this section of his report, was given to him by the RSHA. It thus seems a reliable data, which is corroborated by Greisers cited letter, the note of the RSHA and all established partial numbers. In what concerns the terms transportation and sifted through used by Korherr, this was expressly instructed to him for camouflage reasons by Himmlers personal staff, after the RSHA had first chosen the more transparent term special treatment. All terms recognizably refer to the killing of the Jews.
[Rckerl: The mentioned reports from the Inspector for Statistics with the Reichsfhrer SS and the related correspondence are available in the original in the Federal Archives. [92] In the letter by Himmlers personal assistant dated 10.4.1943 to the Inspector for Statistics it reads as follows:
The Reichsfhrer SS has received your statistical report about "The Final Solution of the European Jewish Question". He wishes that in no place a "special treatment of the Jews" is referred to . On page 9, item 4, the wording must be the following:
The following numbers were sifted
through the camps in the Generalgouvernment .............
through the camps in the Warthegau.....
On 9.4.1943 Himmler wrote to Kaltenbrunner, referring to the statistical report:
The most important thing for me continues to be that as many Jews are taken away to the East as is humanly possible. In the short monthly reports from the Security Police I merely want to be told what has been taken away every month and how many Jews were still left at this time. [93]]
After all this the jury court is convinced that, without taking into account the killings that were still going in the period from January to March, about the scale of which no certain findings could be made, at least 145 000 Jews were killed in the first camp phase in Chelmno.

The second camp phase 1944 to 1945

After the listings from the Eldest of the Jews in the Litzmannstadt Ghetto, which can be considered reliable, the following transports were taken from the ghetto for work outside in the summer of 1944:
1. on 23.6.1944 561 Jews
2. on 26.6.1944 912 Jews
3. on 28.6.1944 803 Jews
4. on 30.6.1944 700 Jews
5. on 3.7.1944 700 Jews
6. on 5.7.1944 700 Jews
7. on 7.7.1944 700 Jews
8. on 10.7.1944 700 Jews
9. on 12.7.1944 700 Jews
10. on 14.7.1944 700 Jews [94]
This leads to a total number of 7,176 Jews who were taken away from the Lodz Ghetto.
To be sure, it is not expressly stated in the mentioned statistical listings that these transports went to Chelmno and not, as was the case from August 1944 on, to Auschwitz. This, however, follows from the credible statement of witness Z., who himself arrived at Chelmno with the 7th or 8th transport and gave the number of transports carried out as 10-12. The jury court is thus convinced that the 10 transports went to Chelmno and thus in the second camp period at least 7,000 Jewish people were killed in Chelmno.

[86] Document in the Archive of the Jewish Historical Institute Warsaw. The mentioned numbers (sum total 54, 990) are distributed among 66 transports, according to the ghetto administrations listing (printed in Faschismus, Ghetto, Massenmord, page 285).
[87] See page 276f. Also regarding the months March and April 1942 the data in the population statistics find confirmation in the list of transports prepared by the Reichsbahn traffic department. (The list records a total or 24,766 Jews taken away for the month March 1942 and a number of 2,350 for the month April.)
[88] Document in the Archives of the Ministry of the Interior, Warsaw, Sign. Gestapo Lodz N 234/101 (printed in Faschismus, Ghetto, Massenmord, page 285 f.).
[89] Document in the Archives of the Ministry of the Interior, Warsaw, Sign. Gestapo Lodz N 235/3 (printed in Faschismus, Ghetto, Massenmord, page 388).
[90] NO 246/247 In this latter Greiser asks Himmler for authorization to, after conclusion of the Jewish action, put the special detachment in Kulmhof in charge of the killing of 35,000 Poles sick with tuberculosis. This authorization was not granted, however. (Copy in the document collection ZStL, Volume 2, page 477 ff.)
[91] Original in the Federal Archives, copy in the document collection ZStL, Vol. 1, page 9ff.
[92] Original in the Federal Archives, copy in the document collection ZStL, Vol. 7, page 417 ff.
[93] It is clear that here killing is being referred to. It cannot be assumed that the Jews as the ostensible carriers of the partisan movement would be transported of all things into the regions in which the partisan danger was huge anyway at that time.
[94] Document in the Archive of the Polish Main Commission for the Investigation of NS crimes. In the Polish investigation procedure the witness Janina M., who at the time had been employed in the kitchen of the Chelmno special detachments, had stated the following: In 1944 transports were brought on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays. At first there arrived transports with 1,000 persons. But they were too large; the Jews could not be accommodated in the church. Accordingly the following transports were smaller; they numbered 700 persons. - AZ-ZStL: 203 AR-Z.
III.2 Physical evidence

III.2.1 Physical evidence documented in an article in the Jan./ Feb. 2003 issue of Archaeology Magazine, on Page 50, excerpt quoted by Gerdes in Topix post # 648 under http://www.topix.com/forum/history/T...H7P8C/p32#c648 :

Quote:
"Between 1941 and 1945, as many as 300,000 adults and children, mostly Polish jews, were executed and cremated here... People said that the Germans had liquidated all traces of the camp and that nothing was left... There is obviously an emotional dimension to the work at Chelmno that is seldom encountered in archaeology. Small fragments of bone catch the sunlight at the forest site where the crematories once stood. "It's one thing to hear about the crematory, it's another to stand inside an enormous pit that is filled with human bones," says Krzysztof Gorczyca, an archaeologist who directed last summer's excavation. "Only then did it occur to me just how many people were murdered here." ...The research at Chelmno is carried out with the absolute agreement and cooperation of the jewish community... Human remains found during the excavations are interred in a jewish cemetery established in the forest."
III.2.2 Physical evidence documented in a complaint article available under http://www.thejewishpress.com/displa..._Camp&recnum=1 , excerpt quoted in my post # 655 under http://www.topix.com/forum/history/T...7P8C/p32#c655:

Quote:
During a cursory search we saw many bone fragments easily visible on the surface of the site.

The museum worker told us that digging had only been stopped due to lack of money, and that the excavations would resume as soon, "as money is made available."

It seemed the man was asking for a donation, thinking that we wanted the work to continue. He was surprised to learn that we were upset about the conditions.

We then went to the forest area, driving along the same route on which the Nazis took their victims.

The forest area also has two sections. One is a beautiful area covered with flowers, with a sign in Polish commemorating the non-Jews who were killed there. In the back is a Jewish monument and a gate leading to the area where the crematoria were and where the remains were dumped into large pits.

The surrounding area is covered with grayish-to-black earth where the ashes were mixed with the earth and after many years are coming to the surface.

What lay before us was a large field of open excavations – some over a hundred feet long. Many of them had protective black plastic sheeting. Some looked old, with grass growing in the pits, but many looked almost brand new. The mayor was in shock and speechless, as were we.

Mielczarek had obviously been lied to by the museum director.

We went from pit to pit, and in some we found easily recognizable human remains such as bone fragments and even a knuckle joint.

The mayor promised to get to the bottom of the situation and get back to us.
Photograph from the same article: http://www.thejewishpress.com/Upload.../chelmno-1.gif

III.2.3 Physical evidence documented in photographs shown in my Topix post # 703 under http://www.topix.com/forum/history/T...H7P8C/p35#c703 :

Mass graves: http://www.death-camps.org/occupatio...gchelmno05.jpg
Crematoria: http://www.death-camps.org/occupatio...elmnocrema.jpg
Human bones: http://www.death-camps.org/occupatio...gchelmno06.jpg .
Rails: http://www.death-camps.org/occupatio...elmnorails.jpg
Channel to the ash-pit: http://www.death-camps.org/occupatio...gchelmno07.jpg
Firebrick: http://www.death-camps.org/occupatio...gchelmno08.jpg
River: http://www.death-camps.org/occupatio...gchelmno01.jpg

IV. Sobibor

IV.1 Documentary and eyewitness evidence assessed at the Hagen Trial of former members of the Sobibor staff that ended in 1966, quoted or referred to in my article Meet Karl Frenzel starting under http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...frenzel-1.html and in Prof. Browning’s article Evidence for the Implementation of the Final Solution under http://www.holocaustdenialontrial.co...fense/browning

IV.2 Physical evidence

IV.2.1 Physical evidence described in a public statement by Prof. Kola about an archaeological excavation conducted at Sobibor in 2001, mentioned in a Reuters press release first quoted by Gerdes in his Topix post # 508 under http://www.topix.com/forum/history/T...H7P8C/p25#c508 :

Quote:
"Polish archaeologists excavating the Nazi death camp in Sobibor said on Friday they had found mass graves at the site, which was evacuated by German occupying forces in October 1943 after a prisoner uprising. The excavations were the first since World War Two at the former camp, which was subsequently forested over. They could provide valuable new evidence on the number of victims, mainly Jews, who died in the Sobibor gas chambers. According to official Polish accounts, 250,000 people were killed in Sobibor, which was opened in May 1942 and lies close to the eastern border with Ukraine.''We uncovered seven mass graves with an average depth of five meters. In them there were charred human remains and under them remains in a state of decay. That means that in the final stage the victims were burned,'' archaeologist Andrzej Kola was quoted by the Polish PAP news agency telling a news conference. He said the largest grave measured 70 meters by 25 meters, the others 20 by 25 meters.''We also found a hospital barracks. The people there were probably shot, as we found over 1,800 machine gun cartridges,'' Kola said.''In the woods we found remnants of barbed wire, which enabled us to reconstruct the boundary of the camp.'' Few prisoners survived Sobibor among them some of the 300 who broke out of the camp on October 14, 1943. Eighty were caught soon after escaping, but some survived the war."
IV.2.2 Physical evidence documented on the site of the Sobibor Archaeological Project under http://www.undersobibor.org/. Exhibits currently available include this air 1944 photograph: http://www.undersobibor.org/sobibor_1944_aerial.jpg and this photo of artificial human teeth: http://www.undersobibor.org/excavation09.jpg .

IV.2.3 Physical evidence documented in photographs available in the archives of The Ghetto Fighters House and featured in my RODOH thread http://rodohforum.yuku.com/topic/5963 (captions from The Ghetto Fighters House):

A mound of the ashes of victims of the Sobibor extermination camp, at the remembrance site on the grounds of the camp.
http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5938_1_web.jpg

A mound of the remains of victims of the Sobibor extermination camp, at the remembrance site on the grounds of the camp.
http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5964_1_web.jpg

A glass display case containing ashes and bones of victims of the Sobibor extermination camp.
http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5968_1_web.jpg

Hair, bones and ashes found on the grounds of the Sobibor extermination camp.
http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...6238_1_web.jpg

Hair, bones and ashes in the area of the Sobibor extermination camp.
http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...6239_1_web.jpg

V. Auschwitz-Birkenau (re the "one gassed Jew" thing)

Eyewitness, documentary and physical evidence mentioned in the Veritas Team Opening Statement on the RODOH forum under http://rodohforum.yuku.com/topic/2275 .

Documentation of physical evidence includes photographs of gassing victims being incinerated in open air pits, which are shown on page 422 of Jean-Claude Pressac, Auschwitz Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers (online under http://www.holocaust-history.org/aus...ssac0422.shtml . Pressac reconstructed the location from and the manner in which these photographs were taken and spoke with the eyewitness credited with taking these photographs. The reconstruction and interview are described on page 424, online under http://www.holocaust-history.org/aus...ssac0424.shtml :

Quote:
Having the original photographs makes it possible to identify and precisely locate the scenes and the position of the photographer. Photos 15 and 16 were taken from the inside of a building, through an open door. The only Birkenau Krematorium possessing the three elements to he found on the two photos, a door giving onto a barbed wire fence with the birch wood in the background, was Krematorium V. In the western section there was the door of the western gas chamber meeting these conditions and two doors in the north side, that of the northern gas chamber and the double door of the furnace room. A beam, the end of which is visible on the photos, supported the porch roofs over these doors (not shown on Drawing 2036, but visible on photo PMO neg. no 20995/ 509). The porch roof outside the furnace room was about a metre higher than the door and was not visible from the interior, but those of the gas chambers, where the roof of the building was lower, were only just above the doors and could be seen from the interior. The line of the crowns of the trees in the Birch Wood diminish from left to right. while it would have been horizontal had the picture been taken from the west end of the building. This clue together with the orientation of the shadows indicates that the pictures were taken looking northwest. the photographer being in the northern gas chamber of Krematorium V [see sketch map]. The wind, normally from the north, was blowing from the west, or more likely, northwest.

As regards Photo 17, possession of the original is essential. It shows that the women are concentrated in the bottom left comer, while on the right it is possible to see the top of a Krematorium chimney which does not have the shape of those of Krematorien II and Ill, but those of Krematorien IV and V. The scene cannot have been located at Krematorium IV, with no trees in the immediate vicinity. Krematorium V was surrounded by birch trees. The photo was taken against the light, the south being in front of the photographer and the north behind him, with one of the two chimneys of a type IV/V Krematorium visible on the right. Given this orientation and these clues, the scene could be nowhere other than at the eastern end of an area between the south wall of Krematorium V and the line of frees bordering the Ringstraße. The photographer was to the east of Krematorium V and the three naked women were moving with their backs to the gas chambers in its western part. They were not running, but walking. awaiting their “turn”.

The chimney of Krematorium V, as we might expect is not smoking. We know from David Szmulewski that the four pictures were taken virtually one after the other, with only about fifteen minutes between the first and the last. One of the open-air cremation ditches was therefore operating quite close to the north side of Krematorium V while its furnace was not working, so that contrary to the testimony of Sonderkommando men, the ditches were not in addition to the furnace but were dug to replace it, as it was out of service.

The author, having determined the location of the three photographs and of the Sonderkommando man who took them, had a conversation with Mr David Szmulewski at the end of 1987, and established just how the episode took place:

In the summer of 1944, the Sonderkommando men asked the camp resistance for a small camera so that they could record the criminal tasks they were forced to carry out: emptying of the gas chambers and incineration of the bodies. The Sonderkommando organized some damage to the roof of the gas chambers of Krematorium V and requested repairs. The internal camp resistance then came into action. A “flying squad” to which Szmulewski, a member of this organization, belonged came to repair the damage. Szmulewski was carrying a dixie can with a false bottom in which the camera was hidden. Once the prisoner-repairmen were on the roof, Szmulewski passed the camera to a Sonderkommando man working at the cremation ditch who had placed himself against the north wall of the gas chambers, under the roof overhang which was 2.45 from the ground. This prisoner then quickly entered the north gas chamber whose door was open for ventilation purposes. There he was safe, as the room had already been emptied of corpses. From the centre of this room he took two photographs of his comrades feeding bodies into the cremation ditch. Then, hiding the camera in his right hand, he emerged from the building and went along the north wall to the eastern end of the building then about 30 metres into the wood, moving parallel to the eastern end of the building, under the cover of the trees. In front of the Krematorium, to the south, a group of women considered unfit for work, the next “batch”, was undressing. Some of them were already naked, a little way away from the others, taking a few steps while waiting. The sun was shining right in his face, through the trees lining the Ringstraße, so there could be no question of using the camera normally, using the viewfinder as he had done in the gas chamber. From rather far away, so as not to be noticed, he took a first picture of the women by guesswork. holding his right arm against his side with the camera in his palm. Hidden behind a tree, he wound on the film, emerged and took another picture in the same way as before. The direction the lens was pointing in was difficult to judge under these conditions and he pointed the camera too high, photographing the tops of the trees instead of the women [Photo 18]. Retracing his steps, he returned to the comparative safely of the Krematorium, moving along the north wall to the gas chambers. Szmulewski was watching out for him. A quick look round, no SS. The Sonderkommando man held up the camera which rapidly changed hands again [see the photograph showing the assumed path of the photographer]. Szmulewski replaced the camera in the bottom of the dixie, the repair was completed and the flying squad departed. The whole process had taken only fifteen to thirty minutes. The photos were taken out of the camp and handed over to the Polish resistance in Cracow.

After the Liberation, the prisoner who took the photographs did not come forward, probably having been liquidated after the Sonderkommando revolt on 7th October 1944, so David Szmulewski became the sole survivor of this operation. The honour came to him and he was declared the author of the photographs, though honestly enough he always stated that he had been on the roof of Krematorium V throughout the whole episode. His friendship with Judge Dan Sehn probably counted for much in this designation. After the war, David Szmulewski remained in Poland and was employed in an important post, but in 1968, one of the periodic waves of anti-Semitism swept through the Polish government and he lost his job because he was a Jew. He emigrated to France and has lived there ever since.
***

So far my recap of eyewitness, documentary and physical evidence regarding the camps Chelmno, Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka and Auschwitz-Birkenau. The recap does not by any means cover all the evidence, and the documentation of physical evidence for at least one of these camps is currently in the process of being considerably expanded.

Now back to the cloud-cuckoo-land of "Revisionist" insanity and our howling monkey Gerdes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
Just one filthy rich greasy jew / homosexual to match nafcash’s reward amount.
No, I don’t think even a "filthy rich greasy jew / homosexual" (still projecting your secret urge to take it in the ass, Gerdes?) is so sick as to promise a money reward in return for presenting mass murder evidence. That’s something only Gerdes and his Jew-hating, Hitler-kissing butt-buddies are capable of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
Are you too chicken-shit to show us the above Rertado?
"Chicken-shit" makes no sense at all in this context, so your parroting me is rather lame. But it does make sense in the context of your persistent refusal to address most of the above evidence and answer questions such as I will ask you below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
Remember what you just said Roberta - "It’s for who makes a claim to provide the proof supporting that claim, asshole."
Proof has been provided, chimp. More than sufficient by the reasonable standards of criminal investigation and historical research. Now how about providing some proof that might support your "transit camp" claims?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
Are you too much of a coward to - get on with it?
That’s what I’m entitled to ask you while you have no reason whatsoever to call me a coward.

But I’ll give you a chance to show our readers that you are not as sorry a piece of chicken-shit as your behavior so far shows you to be.

Instead of taking the chicken-shit way out of making your customary fuss about what can or cannot be seen on photographs and trying to shift the burden of proof, as has been your staple approach so far, you will attempt to provide consistent answers to the following questions:

1. Which of the following hypotheses regarding Chelmno, Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka and Auschwitz-Birkenau is borne out by the evidence listed above and requires the fewest additional assumptions not substantiated by evidence?

Hypothesis A: The mentioned camps were killing sites where hundreds of thousands of people were systematically murdered.

Hypothesis B: The mentioned camps were not killing sites but transit stations from where the overwhelming majority of deportees were taken to final destinations in the Nazi-occupied Soviet territories, Auschwitz-Birkenau also serving as a concentration camps whereas Chelmno, Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka were exclusively transit stations.

If the answer is "Hypothesis B", please explain how the evidence I have shown is supposed to support Hypothesis B.

If you cannot demonstrate that the evidence I have shown supports Hypothesis B, provide whatever evidence you can offer in support of Hypothesis B.

2. What amount of human remains can be reasonably considered proven by the evidence I mentioned above?

a) The amount of human remains corresponding to the death toll of these five camps that becomes apparent from the eyewitness, documentary and physical evidence quoted or referred to.

b) Only the amount of human remains that becomes apparent from or can be estimated on the basis of criminal site investigation reports or archaeological reports.

c) Only the amount of human remains that is visible on photographs.

If the answer is b) or c), please explain the reasons for your choice.

So come on, Gerdes. Answer the above questions. Let’s see if you’re as cowardly as you have so far shown to be or a little less chicken-shit than that.
 
Old July 22nd, 2008 #778
Roberto Muehlenkamp
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,001
Roberto Muehlenkamp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
BTW, has anyone else noticed Roberta's obsession with the word - asshole? (And with the faggot Elton John?)
An asshole is what you are, and I have a strong antipathy towards the faggot Elton John (whereas CS seems to like him, hence presumably his resentment at my "Brad Pitting").

That’s one of the reasons why I like to use this parallel every time whimpering coward Gerdes calls me a coward: it’s like faggot Elton John calling Brad Pitt a faggot.

The other reason is that the parallel is so fucking appropriate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg
Ced:

"Keep on Brad Pitting, you great big asset."

Roberta just can't stop talking about him, can she?

It must be some kind of a homo / schoolgirl like crush.

She can't seem to stop talking about Elton John either.
Actually I don’t think much of either, but as John is a homosexual whereas Pitt keeps making Angelina pregnant and thus cannot possibly be a homo, the "Elton John calling Brad Pitt a faggot" is an appropriate parallel to illustrate the utter absurdity of a whimpering piece of chicken-shit like Gerdes calling me a coward.

But if the parallel disturbs you because it reminds you of your own homosexual tendencies, we can also make it "Albert Fish calling William King a murderer" or "a vulture claiming that an eagle stinks". Which do you prefer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
BTW, did you hear that, even though Elton John is great on the piano - he really sucks on the organ?
Careful when projecting your fantasies, Gerdes – CS seems to be a fan of Elton John’s.

By the way, if you want to know who is currently reading us and enjoying your chimp show, have a look at these Topix posts:

# 933: http://www.topix.com/forum/history/T...H7P8C/p46#c933

# 934: http://www.topix.com/forum/history/T...H7P8C/p46#c934
 
Old July 22nd, 2008 #779
Roberto Muehlenkamp
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Join Date: Jun 2008
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Roberto Muehlenkamp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CS
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roberto Muehlenkamp
No, yet more empty rhetoric on your part.

Let's say being proud of Germany's cultural, technical, scientific and economic achievements and of the stable democracy that Germany has managed to become over the past decades.

I asked "what is pride? What does being a proud German mean to you?" three times before you gave this fair-ish - open to interpretation - answer so how could evasive gyration be empty rhetoric?
Because the first answer I gave (opposing the Nazi criminals who brought shame and disaster to Germany and their apologists, among other things) was an informative answer already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CS
Empty rhetoric is a meaningless catchphrase you often resort to.
No, it’s what I leave to my esteemed opponents, who can offer little else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CS
Quote:
No, blabbering self-indulgently is something I leave to my esteemed opponents. I take advantage of them as demonstration objects of their own imbecility.

Yet more pantomime.
No, an accurate description of the difference between your approach and mine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CS
Look at the sheer volume of text from you in this thread;
That comes with providing evidence and solid arguments instead of just babbling nonsense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CS
very "textbooky" dull it is too.
Funny, that’s exactly what I think of your empty sermons, which rarely if ever contain anything about the subject matter under discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CS
Quote:
Wherever everybody insults me and deserves equal treatment.

This is closer to non interactive than non sequitur. Did you not see your own quote above my response, JewInARut? I can't believe you're still pretending this forum is somehow hindering you.
Where did I say this forum is hindering me? It’s just that it’s more pleasant to debate a lone opponent with your buddies slapping your back than to debate alone in a hostile environment, which is why cowards like Gerdes seek the former.
 
Old July 22nd, 2008 #780
Roberto Muehlenkamp
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,001
Roberto Muehlenkamp
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CS
Quote:
Actually you're my asset, CS. But you don't compare to Gerdes, sorry. He's priceless.

Yeah, I noticed you're addressing me directly again. Damn!
I don’t understand what the poet is trying to tell me, but what I’ve seen from him so far tells me I’m not missing anything.
 
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