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Old August 25th, 2008 #1021
Greg Gerdes
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Retardo:

"...and why he made a fuss about the alleged weight of the remains instead of comparing their volume with the volume of the pits?"

What pits Roberta? How many? Where? What is "the volume" of these alleged pits?

Priceless.
 
Old August 25th, 2008 #1022
Greg Gerdes
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Let’s not forget what the cowardly, homosexual dullard has said:

Quote:
"Boy, one can sense how carpet-biting mad Gerdes is at my having accepted the challenge... You will hear from me again on this subject when you find an issue of SKEPTIC magazine with an article about my research findings in your mailbox... I’m doing my research independently of how big a chance there is that meeting the challenge requirements will get me any money. If I don’t get paid for submitting proof that objectively meets the challenge requirements, that’s fine. If I do get paid, that’s even better... but the next time you repeat that "looking for an angle out" - BS you’ll be telling another lie, asshole. I have already made clear that the reward money would be nice to have but is not the main motivation for my research... What made me decide to accept your challenge was a big mistake you made in one of your posts, one that considerably improved my chances of having access to the very evidence that is required to meet the challenge requirements... If you don’t want to accept my suggestions... that’s just fine with me. It won’t dissuade me from trying to obtain, publish and present to NAFCASH the required proof, for as you well know the money issue is secondary to me... As you well know, I’m not trying to change anything to my "liking"... what I’m showing the world is that I’m willing to play by the standards of the NAFCASH challenge... And just to make it clear once more, I intend to publish proof meeting the requirements in SKEPTIC magazine and submit such proof to NAFCASH as soon as I have it in my hands, independently of what my chances are of ever actually seeing any reward money. If I meet the challenge requirements but cannot obtain payment... that’s fine. If I can obtain payment, that’s even better.”
So why was the faggot allegedly in Spain and Germany (I heard she was really in Denmark getting another operation), when she could have been in Poland gathering evidence of the 13 - nay, 12 alleged "huge mass graves" that allegedly contain the remains of 1,120,000 jews?

1/5th of the holocaust can be found in 12 "huge mass graves?"

What are they waiting for?
 
Old August 25th, 2008 #1023
Greg Gerdes
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During the work on the terrain, I found no mass graves.”

Polish investigator Zdzislaw Lukaszkiewicz admitting the uncomfortable truth in his summary of his Treblinka investigation.
 
Old August 25th, 2008 #1024
Greg Gerdes
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Allegedly, according to deathcamps.org, the 1,120,000 murdered and "burnt" jews in Treblinka and Sobibor are buried in just 12 "huge mass graves." (What happened to grave #7 at Sobibor?)


Sobibor:

http://www.deathcamps.org/sobibor/pic/sobibor.jpg

Treblinka:

http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/bmap9.jpg


But as we all know, even the jews have been forced to admit that the Polish investigator Zdzislaw Lukaszkiewicz admitted after excavating the "lazarette" pit that - "There were no human remains found."

So deathcamps.org continues to claim that the Treblinka "lazarette" pit contains the remains of jews - when they know for a fact that the pit has been proven to be a fraud.

Mmmmmm. I wonder if they're lying about the other "huge mass graves" also? What was it that Polish investigator Zdzislaw Lukaszkiewicz said again about the alleged "huge mass graves" of Treblinka? Oh yeah, now I remember: "During the work on the terrain, I found no mass graves."

We have 12 alleged "huge mass graves" allegedly filled with the remains of 1,120,000 murdered and "burnt" jews. But in one - "there were no human remains found."

So that leaves just 11 - 1/5th of the holohoax allegedly buried in just 11 "huge mass graves!"

And allegedly, they know the exact location of all 11 of these alleged "huge mass graves," yet not so much as one single tooth has ever been proven to have been excavated from either site - out of an alleged 35 million!

Mmmmmmm.
 
Old August 26th, 2008 #1025
Roberto Muehlenkamp
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Know what, Mr. Gerdes, I’m getting the impression that you’re repeating your self-projecting invective and your self-defeatingly infantile and hysterical rhetoric – not to mention your imbecile, irrelevant and already answered questions – way too often even for the taste of your fellow true believers. Even they seem to be getting bored, judging by their apparent silence.

Instead of again repeating the good old "no mass graves" – crap and more of the same beaten lies and bullshit you have dished up many times before, I suggest you use the little brain matter inside your skull, for a change, and try to provide more or less consistent answers to my recent posts

# 1011 under http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...postcount=1011 , in which I reminded you of what you should have done while I was on vacation in order to look a little bit less like the cowardly and obnoxious liar you have shown yourself to be throughout our discussions,

# 1012 under http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...postcount=1012 , in which I (again) answered the repetitive questions that stinking liar Gerdes still claims I’ve run away from ,

# 1013 under http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...postcount=1013 ,

# 1014 under http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...postcount=1014 and

# 1015 under http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...postcount=1015 .

Especially answers to the still unanswered questions contained in those posts.

One question I would especially like to see answered is the question at the end of my post # 916 under http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...&postcount=916 , which I reminded you of in my post # 955 under http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...&postcount=955 before going on vacation and in my post # 1011 after coming back:

Quote:
Now, Mr. Gerdes, can we move to the questions I have asked you and you have never answered, and to further questions I would like to ask you? The list is quite a long one, and unlike most of your questions, they are all pertinent and relevant. Can I post a list of my questions, and will you try to answer them to the best of your knowledge and ability as I have just answered your questions?
There’s a good reason for my having asked this question. I have answered to the best of my current knowledge all your questions related to the physical evidence at the Nazi extermination camps we have been talking about. More information will be forthcoming as I follow the progress of archaeological work on the site of Sobibor extermination camp, but until it does we must decide what do with our discussion.

I see three alternatives:

Alternative # 1: We can bore the hell out of our audience with your endless "show me, show me" – yelling, your repetitive irrelevant questions and my yawning responses to both.

Alternative # 2: We can let this discussion rest until more news from the current Sobibor investigations come in.

Alternative # 3: We can do something productive in the meantime by taking a look at the questions I have asked you throughout this discussion and further questions I would like to ask you, questions related to the relevance of your demands, to the physical evidence we have looked at, to the documentary and eyewitness evidence I have shown and to the hypothetical scenarios other than mass murder that you believe in.

From the point of view of our audience, I’d say Alternative # 3 is the most interesting.

As concerns Greg Gerdes, Alternative # 1 is what he will choose if he decides to continue behaving like the lying coward he has so far shown himself to be, Alternative # 2 is the neutral choice and Alternative # 3 is the one he will choose if he should manage to overcome his cowardice and if he has a minimum of genuine interest in the historical events we have been talking about.

So which of them shall it be, Mr. Gerdes?

Alternative # 1 ?

Alternative # 2 ?

or

Alternative # 3 ?

While you consider your answer, I’ll go to Topix, where you seem to have again reported one of my posts for deletion, miserable coward that you are.

Don’t you feel sick every time you look in the mirror, Mr. Gerdes? I certainly would if I behaved like you. But then, I have a certain sense of decency, which is something you lack completely.

Readers are invited to check out the following posts on the Topix forum:

# 968 http://www.topix.com/forum/history/T...H7P8C/p47#c968

# 969 http://www.topix.com/forum/history/T...H7P8C/p47#c969

# 1005 http://www.topix.com/forum/history/T...7P8C/p49#c1005
# 1012 http://www.topix.com/forum/history/T...7P8C/p49#c1012
 
Old August 27th, 2008 #1026
Greg Gerdes
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Here again are the unanswered questions about Sobibor that Roberta has run away from.


1 - On what EXACT date(s) was Michael Shermer physically in the Sobibor camp?

2 - Why does he refuse to reveal this date(s)?

3 - Are there photographs that prove he ever stepped foot in the camp?

4 - If so, then why does he refuse to release them?

5 - On what date can we expect Shermers report on his findings that resulted from his "firsthand investigation" of the camp?

* Note: Contact information for the lying coward Shermer can be found at the bottom of this link here:

http://www.vho.org/tr/2002/3/tr11shermer.html

6 - On what EXACT date(s) was Kola physically in the Sobibor camp?

7 - Why does he refuse to reveal this date(s)?

8 - Are there photographs that prove he ever stepped foot in the camp?

9 - If so, then why does he refuse to release them?

10 - Are there photographs of Kola actually excavating the alleged "huge mass graves?"

11 - If so, then why does he refuse to release them?

12 - Are there photographs proving that any human remains actually exist?

13 - If so, then why does he refuse to release them?

14 - What were the results of the analysis of those soil core samples that the jews claim are: "ashes of human bone and tissue for the light gray stuff, wood ashes for the black stuff and pure bone ashes or lime for the white stuff?"

15 - On what date can we expect Kolas report on his findings that resulted from his "excavation" of the 7 alleged "huge mass graves?"

16 - What proof is there that the "huge ash mountain" of Sobibor is actually comprised of human ash?

17 - Where are the photographs of the huge pit is that this "mountain of human ash" was dug out of?

18 - Why does the $100,000.00 - THE FINAL SOLUTION FORENSIC CHALLENGE reward go unclaimed?


Roberta:

“Actually I’m able to prove the existence of all of these mass graves by simply referring to Prof. Kola’s description. Proof is contained in Prof. Kola’s published report about his findings on site, and in the documentary and eyewitness evidence about the mass killings at Sobibor, which is compatible with Kola’s findings.”


19 - And where can we find this published report?

20 - Or did you lie about it being published?

19 - BTW Roberta, why do you keep running from the questions about the soil core samples of Sobibor?

21 - What do the frauds at the Sobibor Archaeology Project say those core samples are comprised of?

22 - Can you show us a single photo of a single "huge mass grave" of Sobibor - yes or no?



BTW Roberta, have I ever told you that you're priceless?
 
Old August 27th, 2008 #1027
Greg Gerdes
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Roberta (post #916):


Quote:
"No photos of Prof. Kola in person doing excavation work have to my knowledge been published. However, I have been informed by the director of the Sobibor Archaeology Project, Mr. Yoram Haimi, that the photos shown under http://www.sobibor.edu.pl/angielska/...nia/index.html are related to Prof. Kola’s archaeological investigation in 2001.

While no photographs are required to prove that the mass graves actually exist, the three photographs from the above-mentioned series obviously show substances taken with a core drill out of Sobibor mass graves, which are clearly distinguishable from the light brown soil of Sobibor."


So the greasy jewbitch admits that she's been in contact with fellow greasball haimi. So why then does she not know the results of any analysis of said "substances taken with a core drill out of Sobibor mass graves?"

Roberta:


Quote:
"I am not familiar at this moment with the results of such analysis, which have not been published. However, it seems reasonable to assume that if such analysis was done – which is probably the case – , the results confirmed my assumptions mentioned in answer B.3 above."

Let's see the results of the analysis and lets see the photos of the other core samples. How many core samples were taken?


Later in the same post:

E.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
9 - Show us proof that the "huge ash mountain" of Sobibor is actually comprised of human ash.

Roberta:


Quote:
"The aspect of the substance that the mound consists of, which has a light gray coloration different from the light-brown color of the soil at Sobibor (see photos mentioned in answer B.3 above) suggests the accuracy of captions describing this mound as a mound consisting of or containing human ashes."


Notice how the lying jewbitch is trying to imply that there have been core samples taken from the mound. Let's see the photos of these alleged core samples and lets see the results of the analysis of the alleged samples.

Roberta:


Quote:
"...So does the associated documentary and eyewitness evidence proving that Sobibor was an extermination camp and that the bodies of the victims were disposed of by burning them, which is mentioned in my post # 777 under http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...&postcount=777 ."


What burnt bodies? Where?


Robeta:


Quote:
"...The conclusion that the mound in question is comprised of human ash is thus the conclusion that is borne out by all known evidence and belied by none. It is also the conclusion towards which various sources of evidence independent of each other converge. This convergence of various sources of evidence independent of each other, alone or together with the absence of any evidence to the contrary, is proof that the mound in question is comprised of human ash."

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!

Thank you Roberta.

Have I ever told you that you're priceless?
 
Old August 27th, 2008 #1028
Greg Gerdes
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More from Roberta's post #916:

F.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
10 - Show us were the huge pit is that this "mountain of human ash" was dug out of.

Roberta:


Quote:
"The human ashes that the mound at Sobibor is comprised of may have been dug out of one of more of the pits discovered by Prof. Kola in 2001. They were probably brought to the surface by postwar robbery digging, which would mean it is impossible to determine which of the grave pits contained these specific ashes."

So Kola discovered pits?


Let's see them.


Show us the pits that the alleged "human ash" was dug out of.

Let's see the photos of the construction of the "huge ash mountain."
 
Old August 27th, 2008 #1029
Greg Gerdes
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More from Roberta's post #916:


"According to my last conversation with Yoram Haimi... Archaeological evidence is published for the purpose of enhancing scientific and historical knowledge and for everyone’s benefit. When the results of the current archaeological investigations are published in a scientific magazine, they will include much more than just the evidence necessary to meet the NAFCASH challenge requirements. And I will see to it that Mr. Gerdes gets a free copy of the scientific magazine in which this evidence shall be published."


Let's see proof of the "charred human remains and under them remains in a state of decay" allegedly found at Sobibor. After all, it would "enhanc scientific and historical knowledge and for everyone’s benefit."
 
Old August 27th, 2008 #1030
Greg Gerdes
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Some keyboard claptrap from the retarded jewbitch's post #953:

Roberta:


Quote:
"Under number 3 I am saying that the samples were probably analyzed in order to confirm that they contain what their aspect suggests. I’m not categorically stating that such analysis, if done, confirmed that these samples contain human remains (though this was what the analysis probably did). Yep, until the results of Prof. Kola’s 2001 investigation are published, one can only presume that he did the analyses one would expect a competent professional archaeologist to do. I just consider it reasonable to assume that such confirmation was obtained, because

a) the aspect of the samples suggests the presence of human remains,

* - What human remains? Show us these alleged human remains.

b) Prof. Kola is known to have identified mass graves at Sobibor and these samples are from his investigation and

*What mass graves? Show us these alleged "huge mass graves."

c) a competent professional archaeologist – which previous work by Prof. Kola has shown him to be – can be expected so have such samples analyzed."

* - Really? Then answer the following questions:

Were the samples analyzed or not?

If not, why?

If yes, let's see the results.

Some keyboard claptrap from the retarded jewbitch's post #954:

Roberta:

"I might add that I don’t know what the members of the Sobibor Archaeology Project say about the composition of these samples. In my last phone conversation with Yoram Haimi, I forgot to ask this question. I shall ask it next time we speak."


So what was the greasy jews answer?


Why is Roberta running away from these questions? She has the contact information to easily answer them. In fact, she has already admitted that she's been in contact before with the people who can answer these questions.

We're waiting Roberta.
 
Old August 27th, 2008 #1031
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(November 23, 2001) Mass Graves Found at Nazi Polish Death Camp


Quote:
WARSAW (Reuters) - Polish archaeologists excavating the Nazi death camp in Sobibor said they have found mass graves at the site. The excavations could provide valuable new evidence on the number of victims.“We uncovered seven mass graves with an average depth of five meters. In them there were charred human remains and under them remains in a state of decay” archaeologist Andrzej Kola was quoted by the Polish PAP news agency telling a news conference. He said the largest grave measured 70 by 25 meters, the others 20 by 25 meters. Wladyslaw Bartoszewski, a former Polish foreign minister said -“it is vital to gather evidence to refute the claims of those seeking to deny the Holocaust,” adding -“The work will continue - we have to confirm scientifically that this camp existed.”

Let’s take a closer look at this alleged archeological finding at Sobibor. We have 7 alleged “huge mass graves” - 6 measuring 20 x 25 x 5 meters and one 70 x 25 x 5 meters. So each of the smaller graves has a volume of 2,500 sq. meters, with a combined total volume of 15,000 sq. meters and the largest of these alleged "huge mass graves" has a volume of 8,750 sq. meters - for a grand total of all 7 graves being - 23,750 sq. meters. This would mean then that the largest alleged “huge mass grave” would comprise 36.84% of the total alleged volume of all graves combined.

So, if the alleged death toll of Sobibor is 250,000 and 36.84% of 250,000 is 92,100, then that means that the largest alleged “huge mass grave” of Sobibor would contain the remains of 92,100 jews. Now, 1% of the alleged mass murder is of course 2,500 and that amount would be only 2.714% of the total number of those alleged to be buried in said “huge mass grave.” Which begs the questions: Just how hard would it be to identify and quantify only 2.714% of the alleged contents of a single “huge mass grave” that allegedly contains the “charred human remains and remains in a state of decay” of 92,100 people? And why - 7 years after Kola’s press conference - has this not been done yet? What happened to the jews pledge to “confirm scientifically that this camp existed?”

Allegedly, the remains of 92,100 jews in a “huge mass grave” measuring 70 x 25 x 5 meters were located 7 years ago, yet to this day, not an iota of proof has surfaced that confirms that so much as one body has been proven to exist. In fact, not so much as a single tooth has ever been proven to have been found at Sobibor.

Why can't the greasy jews prove the existence of these alleged "huge mass graves?"

Can anyone show us a single photo of a single "huge mass grave" of Sobibor?

Yes

or

No?
 
Old August 27th, 2008 #1032
Roberto Muehlenkamp
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In my previous post on this thread (# 1025 under http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...postcount=1025 ), I wrote the following:

Quote:
One question I would especially like to see answered is the question at the end of my post # 916 under http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...&postcount=916 , which I reminded you of in my post # 955 under http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...&postcount=955 before going on vacation and in my post # 1011 after coming back:

Quote:
Now, Mr. Gerdes, can we move to the questions I have asked you and you have never answered, and to further questions I would like to ask you? The list is quite a long one, and unlike most of your questions, they are all pertinent and relevant. Can I post a list of my questions, and will you try to answer them to the best of your knowledge and ability as I have just answered your questions?
There’s a good reason for my having asked this question. I have answered to the best of my current knowledge all your questions related to the physical evidence at the Nazi extermination camps we have been talking about. More information will be forthcoming as I follow the progress of archaeological work on the site of Sobibor extermination camp, but until it does we must decide what do with our discussion.

I see three alternatives:

Alternative # 1: We can bore the hell out of our audience with your endless "show me, show me" – yelling, your repetitive irrelevant questions and my yawning responses to both.

Alternative # 2: We can let this discussion rest until more news from the current Sobibor investigations come in.

Alternative # 3: We can do something productive in the meantime by taking a look at the questions I have asked you throughout this discussion and further questions I would like to ask you, questions related to the relevance of your demands, to the physical evidence we have looked at, to the documentary and eyewitness evidence I have shown and to the hypothetical scenarios other than mass murder that you believe in.

From the point of view of our audience, I’d say Alternative # 3 is the most interesting.

As concerns Greg Gerdes, Alternative # 1 is what he will choose if he decides to continue behaving like the lying coward he has so far shown himself to be, Alternative # 2 is the neutral choice and Alternative # 3 is the one he will choose if he should manage to overcome his cowardice and if he has a minimum of genuine interest in the historical events we have been talking about.

So which of them shall it be, Mr. Gerdes?

Alternative # 1 ?

Alternative # 2 ?

or

Alternative # 3 ?
Gerdes’ hysterical and repetitive rambling in posts # 1026 to # 1031 shows that he chose Alternative # 1:

Quote:
We can bore the hell out of our audience with your endless "show me, show me" – yelling, your repetitive irrelevant questions and my yawning responses to both.
He thereby informed us that he decided to continue behaving like the lying coward he has so far shown himself to be.

Bravo, Mr. Gerdes! You always do exactly what I expect you to do. Your predictability is one of the qualities that make you such a priceless demonstration object of "Revisionist" misery. Your limited intellect, and the accordingly limited repertoire that restricts to repeating the same trash over and over again, is another of those qualities.

But I’ll give you another chance, nice guy that I am:

My having answered to all your questions to the best of my current knowledge, the question arises what we should do with our discussion until further information from the current archaeological work at Sobibor comes around.

I see three alternatives:

Alternative # 1: We can bore the hell out of our audience with your endless "show me, show me" – yelling, your repetitive irrelevant questions and my yawning responses to both.

Alternative # 2: We can let this discussion rest until more news from the current Sobibor investigations come in.

Alternative # 3: We can do something productive in the meantime by taking a look at the questions I have asked you throughout this discussion and further questions I would like to ask you, questions related to the relevance of your demands, to the physical evidence we have looked at, to the documentary and eyewitness evidence I have shown and to the hypothetical scenarios other than mass murder that you believe in.

From the point of view of our audience, I’d say Alternative # 3 is the most interesting.

As concerns Greg Gerdes, Alternative # 1 is what he will choose if he decides to continue behaving like the lying coward he has so far shown himself to be, Alternative # 2 is the neutral choice and Alternative # 3 is the one he will choose if he should manage to overcome his cowardice and if he has a minimum of genuine interest in the historical events we have been talking about.

So which of them shall it be, Mr. Gerdes?

Alternative # 1 ?

Alternative # 2 ?

or

Alternative # 3 ?
 
Old August 27th, 2008 #1033
Greg Gerdes
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Allegedly, according to deathcamps.org, the 1,120,000 murdered and "burnt" jews in Treblinka and Sobibor are buried in just 12 "huge mass graves." (What happened to grave #7 at Sobibor?)


Sobibor:

http://www.deathcamps.org/sobibor/pic/sobibor.jpg

Treblinka:

http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/bmap9.jpg


But as we all know, even the jews have been forced to admit that the Polish investigator Zdzislaw Lukaszkiewicz admitted after excavating the "lazarette" pit that - "There were no human remains found."

So deathcamps.org continues to claim that the Treblinka "lazarette" pit contains the remains of jews - when they know for a fact that the pit has been proven to be a fraud.

Mmmmmm. I wonder if they're lying about the other "huge mass graves" also? What was it that Polish investigator Zdzislaw Lukaszkiewicz said again about the alleged "huge mass graves" of Treblinka? Oh yeah, now I remember: "During the work on the terrain, I found no mass graves."

We have 12 alleged "huge mass graves" allegedly filled with the remains of 1,120,000 murdered and "burnt" jews. But in one - "there were no human remains found."

So that leaves just 11 - 1/5th of the holohoax allegedly buried in just 11 "huge mass graves!"

And allegedly, they know the exact location of all 11 of these alleged "huge mass graves," yet not so much as one single tooth has ever been proven to have been excavated from either site - out of an alleged 35 million!


Mmmmmmmmmm.

Now Roberta, you've accepted THE FINAL SOLUTION FORENSIC CHALLENGE. Let's see proof of the "charred human remains and under them remains in a state of decay" allegedly found at Sobibor.

What are you waiting for Roberta?

Answer the questions - bitch.
 
Old August 28th, 2008 #1034
Greg Gerdes
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This is going to send the dullest of the dull into one of his famous, hysterical carpet-biting fits.

New on the nafcash ( http://www.nafcash.com/ ) site:

NOTE: If you lack the courage to accept the above facts and you want to continue to deny the truth about the “holocaust,” the “final solution” and the “pure extermination centers,” then the ball is in your court. The supporters of THE FINAL SOLUTION FORENSIC CHALLENGE TM have put their money where their mouths are and it’s time for the criminally fraudulent holocaust industry, their mealy-mouthed “skeptical” minions, their bought whores in the media and their servile Judas-Goats in our government indoctrination centers to put up or shut up. And to further illustrate just what utter frauds Michael Shermer, Andrzej Kola and the members of THE SOBIBOR ARCHAEOLOGY PROJECT are, NAFCASH TM will consider, for the purpose of laying claim to THE FINAL SOLUTION FORENSIC CHALLENGE TM, that Sobibors fraudulent “ASH MOUNTAIN” is one of the alleged “huge mass graves.” This means of course, that this “huge mass graves” exact location and exact dimensions are already known! So you only need to prove that it contains the remains of 2,500 people. What could be easier to do - IF - the claims about this “huge mound of human remains” are true?


Now there is no need to wait on Kolas alleged report!

What are you waiting for dull one?
 
Old August 29th, 2008 #1035
Roberto Muehlenkamp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Gerdes View Post
Allegedly, according to deathcamps.org, the 1,120,000 murdered and "burnt" jews in Treblinka and Sobibor are buried in just 12 "huge mass graves." (What happened to grave #7 at Sobibor?)


Sobibor:

http://www.deathcamps.org/sobibor/pic/sobibor.jpg

Treblinka:

http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/bmap9.jpg


But as we all know, even the jews have been forced to admit that the Polish investigator Zdzislaw Lukaszkiewicz admitted after excavating the "lazarette" pit that - "There were no human remains found."

So deathcamps.org continues to claim that the Treblinka "lazarette" pit contains the remains of jews - when they know for a fact that the pit has been proven to be a fraud.

Mmmmmm. I wonder if they're lying about the other "huge mass graves" also? What was it that Polish investigator Zdzislaw Lukaszkiewicz said again about the alleged "huge mass graves" of Treblinka? Oh yeah, now I remember: "During the work on the terrain, I found no mass graves."

We have 12 alleged "huge mass graves" allegedly filled with the remains of 1,120,000 murdered and "burnt" jews. But in one - "there were no human remains found."

So that leaves just 11 - 1/5th of the holohoax allegedly buried in just 11 "huge mass graves!"

And allegedly, they know the exact location of all 11 of these alleged "huge mass graves," yet not so much as one single tooth has ever been proven to have been excavated from either site - out of an alleged 35 million!


Mmmmmmmmmm.

Now Roberta, you've accepted THE FINAL SOLUTION FORENSIC CHALLENGE. Let's see proof of the "charred human remains and under them remains in a state of decay" allegedly found at Sobibor.

What are you waiting for Roberta?

Answer the questions - bitch.

Back to your old lies re "no mass graves" (see exhibits A.3.1.3 and A.3.1.4 in my post # 172 under http://206.41.117.128/showpost.php?p...&postcount=172 ) and "no teeth" (see exhibits A.3.1.1 and A.3.1.6 in the same post) at Treblinka, Mr. Gerdes?

You’re as predictable as you’re boring, my friend.

The pit 7.5 meters deep containing lots of human remains, which is described in Lukaszkiewicz' site investigation report of 13 November 1945, can only have been a former mass grave. This means that when Lukaszkiewicz wrote that he found "no mass graves", he meant to say that he found "no mass graves full of stinking dead bodies". What he did find was at least one mass grave containing partial remains of human bodies. And he found an area of 20,000 square meters covered by ashes, bone fragments and other partial remains, which can only have been the area of the Treblinka "death camp" section that had contained the mass graves.

We've been there before, haven't we?

The mass grave by the "Lazarett" may not even have been located during the Lukaszkiewicz’ investigation. Or then it was completely cleared out during the camp’s dismantlement and then turned into a deeper pit to bury useless objects in.

We have also been there before, haven’t we?

As to the maps featured by deathcamps.org, I didn’t know they are claimed to be fully accurate representations of the camp layouts including the number and size of the mass graves. What made you conclude they are claimed to be that?

And as concerns the contents of the Sobibor mass graves, an archaeologist's public statement in conjunction with the known documentary and eyewitness evidence to large-scale mass murder at Sobibor is proof enough. If you want further details you’ll have to wait for the results of ongoing archaeological research by the SAP. Archaeologists work according to their own schedules regardless of how often a hysterical retard yells "let’s see", you know. And I don’t give a damn about your hysterical yelling either.

What I’m waiting for, you ask? I’ll tell you in my next post.
 
Old August 29th, 2008 #1036
Roberto Muehlenkamp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Gerdes View Post
This is going to send the dullest of the dull into one of his famous, hysterical carpet-biting fits.

New on the nafcash ( http://www.nafcash.com/ ) site:

NOTE: If you lack the courage to accept the above facts and you want to continue to deny the truth about the “holocaust,” the “final solution” and the “pure extermination centers,” then the ball is in your court. The supporters of THE FINAL SOLUTION FORENSIC CHALLENGE TM have put their money where their mouths are and it’s time for the criminally fraudulent holocaust industry, their mealy-mouthed “skeptical” minions, their bought whores in the media and their servile Judas-Goats in our government indoctrination centers to put up or shut up. And to further illustrate just what utter frauds Michael Shermer, Andrzej Kola and the members of THE SOBIBOR ARCHAEOLOGY PROJECT are, NAFCASH TM will consider, for the purpose of laying claim to THE FINAL SOLUTION FORENSIC CHALLENGE TM, that Sobibors fraudulent “ASH MOUNTAIN” is one of the alleged “huge mass graves.” This means of course, that this “huge mass graves” exact location and exact dimensions are already known! So you only need to prove that it contains the remains of 2,500 people. What could be easier to do - IF - the claims about this “huge mound of human remains” are true?


Now there is no need to wait on Kolas alleged report!

What are you waiting for dull one?


What I'm waiting for, the self-projecting hysteric asks?

Let’s see …

I’m waiting for time and means to go to Sobibor, obtain permission to disturb the ash heap (which I doubt will be granted) and enlist the services of an expert to analyze the human remains and certify that they are in fact human remains (which I also doubt anyone will do for just little me).

So waiting for what comes of an assessment of the mass graves’ contents by the SAP and/or for a detailed report by Prof. Kola seems a more promising approach.

I’m also waiting for Gerdes to take care of the tasks listed in my post # 955:

Quote:
1. A positive response to the question at the end of my post # 916:

Quote:
Now, Mr. Gerdes, can we move to the questions I have asked you and you have never answered, and to further questions I would like to ask you? The list is quite a long one, and unlike most of your questions, they are all pertinent and relevant. Can I post a list of my questions, and will you try to answer them to the best of your knowledge and ability as I have just answered your questions?
2. Changes on the NAFCASH site that make good for the following examples of Gerdian cowardice mentioned in my post # 903 under http://206.41.117.128/showpost.php?p...&postcount=903 :

Quote:
Readers who have followed this discussion will also remember how many questions (regarding evidence I have shown, regarding the relevance of his infantile "show me" – demands and regarding the rules and standards of evidence – if any – that these demands are based on, among other things) I have asked the fellow, and how few of these – if any at all – he has not run away from.

Readers will further remember Gerdes’ persistent refusal to define more precisely the requirements of the NAFCASH challenge and to state what exactly he would accept as proof meeting those requirements, even though I made it real easy for him by providing a draft of such specification and asking him to modify it as he considered necessary (see my posts # 506 under http://206.41.117.128/showpost.php?p...&postcount=506 , # 528 under http://206.41.117.128/showpost.php?p...&postcount=528 , # 536 under http://206.41.117.128/showpost.php?p...&postcount=536 , # 540 under http://206.41.117.128/showpost.php?p...&postcount=540, # 545 under http://206.41.117.128/showpost.php?p...&postcount=545, # 566 under http://206.41.117.128/showpost.php?p...&postcount=566 , among others) . The staple reply to my suggestion was the idiotic "what part of proof do you not understand?" – rhetoric. Asked if this meant submission to reasonable standards of proof such as applied in criminal investigation and historical research, Gerdes ignored the question.

Readers will further remember my suggestion that Gerdes make the NAFCASH challenge more transparent by clearly describing the procedure for selecting eligible applicants, submittal of evidence by such applicants, assessment of evidence submitted by NAFCASH and their decision about entitlement to the reward. The NAFCASH site is rather vague in this respect. Yet all requests that a potential applicant be informed more precisely about the procedures were met with the hysterical derision and Simian howling that is the hallmark of Gerdes’ "argumentation".

Another thing that I’m sure our readers recall is Gerdes’ refusal to introduce an escrow account provision (as is usually done in challenges of this nature, I’ve been told) or at least make it clear to a potential applicant that he may well have to run after x different challenge supporters (the number is 21 including Gerdes, according to the same) at y different places for z part of the reward amount to which each supporter has committed – a fact that would probably make a potential applicant whose first and foremost interest is the money think twice. Gerdes’ response to this reasonable suggestion was a most imbecile "why don’t you get the money from those filthy stinking-rich Jews" – rant.

As if these examples of Gerdian cowardice were not enough, Gerdes also excluded Belzec and Chelmno extermination camps from the challenge, obviously in order to limit a potential applicant’s opportunities to meet the challenge requirements. Asked why he had done so, the best he could come up with was some notoriously lame babbling about "simplification" and "focus", IIRC. Bullshit.

But that’s not yet all, folks. Apparently for no reason other than my apparent preference for ARCHAEOLOGY magazine over SKEPTIC magazine as the publisher of my future article containing evidence that meets the NAFCASH challenge requirements, miserable coward Gerdes excluded ARCHAEOLOGY magazine from the already limited list of accepted publishers (if he had balls, as I said before, he would at least have accepted any pertinent scientific magazine for publication of evidence meeting the challenge requirements) and limited a potential applicant’s choice of publishers to SKEPTIC magazine alone (to be sure, it was stated on the NAFCASH site that an applicant rejected by SKEPTIC "MAY" be given the chance to publish in ARCHAEOLOGY magazine instead, but Gerdes wouldn’t be Gerdes if that "MAY" did not mean "WILL NOT").

And what is more, Gerdes started making a fuss about an unfavorable opinion I had uttered on Topix about Shermer’s qualities as a researcher, obviously in order to make sure that Shermer’s resentment over such statement would hinder his publishing an article of mine in SKEPTIC magazine.
3. A post addressing my fellow HC bloggers below the HC article Update on Gerdes & NAFCASH under http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...s-nafcash.html, in order to make up for another example of Gerdian cowardice mentioned in post # 903.

4. On the CODOH thread http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=5059, a link to the present VNN thread and links to my HC articles under the following links:

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...challenge.html

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...llenge_28.html

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...enge_4802.html

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...llenge_29.html

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...llenge_30.html

5. On the CODOH thread http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=5059 , an invitation to Jonnie "Hannover" Hargis to report for debate on this VNN thread starting 25 August 2008.
As I wrote in my post # 1025, I’m waiting for Gerdes to use the little brain matter inside his skull, for a change, and try to provide more or less consistent answers to my posts:

# 1011 under http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...postcount=1011 , in which I reminded you of what you should have done while I was on vacation in order to look a little bit less like the cowardly and obnoxious liar you have shown yourself to be throughout our discussions,

# 1012 under http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...postcount=1012 , in which I (again) answered the repetitive questions that stinking liar Gerdes still claims I’ve run away from ,

# 1013 under http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...postcount=1013 ,

# 1014 under http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...postcount=1014 and

# 1015 under http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...postcount=1015 .

Especially answers to the still unanswered questions contained in those posts.

As I also wrote in post # 1025,

Quote:
One question I would especially like to see answered is the question at the end of my post # 916 under http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...&postcount=916 , which I reminded you of in my post # 955 under http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...&postcount=955 before going on vacation and in my post # 1011 after coming back:

Quote:
Now, Mr. Gerdes, can we move to the questions I have asked you and you have never answered, and to further questions I would like to ask you? The list is quite a long one, and unlike most of your questions, they are all pertinent and relevant. Can I post a list of my questions, and will you try to answer them to the best of your knowledge and ability as I have just answered your questions?
There’s a good reason for my having asked this question. I have answered to the best of my current knowledge all your questions related to the physical evidence at the Nazi extermination camps we have been talking about. More information will be forthcoming as I follow the progress of archaeological work on the site of Sobibor extermination camp, but until it does we must decide what do with our discussion.

I see three alternatives:

Alternative # 1: We can bore the hell out of our audience with your endless "show me, show me" – yelling, your repetitive irrelevant questions and my yawning responses to both.

Alternative # 2: We can let this discussion rest until more news from the current Sobibor investigations come in.

Alternative # 3: We can do something productive in the meantime by taking a look at the questions I have asked you throughout this discussion and further questions I would like to ask you, questions related to the relevance of your demands, to the physical evidence we have looked at, to the documentary and eyewitness evidence I have shown and to the hypothetical scenarios other than mass murder that you believe in.

From the point of view of our audience, I’d say Alternative # 3 is the most interesting.

As concerns Greg Gerdes, Alternative # 1 is what he will choose if he decides to continue behaving like the lying coward he has so far shown himself to be, Alternative # 2 is the neutral choice and Alternative # 3 is the one he will choose if he should manage to overcome his cowardice and if he has a minimum of genuine interest in the historical events we have been talking about.

So which of them shall it be, Mr. Gerdes?

Alternative # 1 ?

Alternative # 2 ?

or

Alternative # 3 ?
An answer to the question which alternative you choose - that's also what I’m currently waiting for.
 
Old August 29th, 2008 #1037
Greg Gerdes
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Join Date: May 2008
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Greg Gerdes
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Retardo:

"This means that when Lukaszkiewicz wrote that he found "no mass graves", he meant to say that he found "no mass graves."


Yes, I know Retardo. What else would - "I found no mass graves" mean?


Retardo:

"We've been there before, haven't we?"


You mean I've proven that you're a lying P.O.S. on this matter? Why yes, we have.


Retardo:

"The mass grave by the "Lazarett" may not even have been located during the Lukaszkiewicz’ investigation."

What a lying P.O.S. you are Roberta. We all know that Lukaszkiewicz admitted that he investigated this pit and concluded: "There were no human remains found."

Retardo:


"It was completely cleared out during the camp’s dismantlement and then turned into a deeper pit to bury useless objects in."

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

Have I ever told you that you're priceless Roberta?

It appears you have your magic glasses on again. So please tell us dull one -

What happened to the human remains that were removed from the lazarett pit? Give us the EXACT location that they were moved to and the PROOF that you have to back up your baseless allegation. (Shouldn't be hard for someone with magic glasses on.)


Retardo:

"I’m waiting for time and means to go to Sobibor, obtain permission to disturb the ash heap (which I doubt will be granted) and enlist the services of an expert to analyze the human remains and certify that they are in fact human remains (which I also doubt anyone will do for just little me)."


Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!

So you now admit that Kola never took any core samples of the "ash mountain?"

You lie so much Retardo, you've lost track of your many lies


Retardo:

"The aspect of the substance that the mound consists of, which has a light gray coloration different from the light-brown color of the soil at Sobibor (see photos mentioned in answer B.3 above) suggests the accuracy of captions describing this mound as a mound consisting of or containing human ashes."


And my earlier response:

"Notice how the lying jewbitch is trying to imply that there have been core samples taken from the mound. Let's see the photos of these alleged core samples and lets see the results of the analysis of the alleged samples."


Roberta:


Quote:
"...The conclusion that the mound in question is comprised of human ash is thus the conclusion that is borne out by all known evidence and belied by none. It is also the conclusion towards which various sources of evidence independent of each other converge. This convergence of various sources of evidence independent of each other, alone or together with the absence of any evidence to the contrary, is proof that the mound in question is comprised of human ash."


More from Retardo (with my earlier response):

Roberta:


Quote:
"The human ashes that the mound at Sobibor is comprised of may have been dug out of one of more of the pits discovered by Prof. Kola in 2001. They were probably brought to the surface by postwar robbery digging, which would mean it is impossible to determine which of the grave pits contained these specific ashes."

So Kola discovered pits?


Let's see them.


Show us the pits that the alleged "human ash" was dug out of.


Let's see the photos of the construction of the "huge ash mountain."

What are you waiting for Roberta?
 
Old August 29th, 2008 #1038
Greg Gerdes
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Retardo:

"The pit 7.5 meters deep... can only have been a former mass grave... What he did find was at least one mass grave..."

Notice that the dull one, despite Lukaszkiewicz's amission that: "During the work on the terrain, I found no mass graves," continues to insist that "at least on mass grave" was found.

One.

Where is this alleged "former" mass grave Retardo?

EXACT location please.
 
Old August 29th, 2008 #1039
Roberto Muehlenkamp
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Poor hysterical Gerdes, I got him carpet-biting mad again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
Retardo:

"This means that when Lukaszkiewicz wrote that he found "no mass graves", he meant to say that he found "no mass graves."

Yes, I know Retardo. What else would - "I found no mass graves" mean?
What I wrote was the following (emphases added):

Quote:
The pit 7.5 meters deep containing lots of human remains, which is described in Lukaszkiewicz' site investigation report of 13 November 1945, can only have been a former mass grave. This means that when Lukaszkiewicz wrote that he found "no mass graves", he meant to say that he found "no mass graves full of stinking dead bodies". What he did find was at least one mass grave containing partial remains of human bodies. And he found an area of 20,000 square meters covered by ashes, bone fragments and other partial remains, which can only have been the area of the Treblinka "death camp" section that had contained the mass graves.
Poor Gerdes is again so desperate that he turns to messing with my statements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
Retardo:

"We've been there before, haven't we?"

You mean I've proven that you're a lying P.O.S. on this matter? Why yes, we have.
Actually what has been proven is that Gerdes is either too dumb to realize that this pit with human remains to a depth of 7.5 meters:

Quote:
The largest of the craters produced by explosions (numerous fragments attest to the fact that these explosions were set off by bombs), which is at maximum 6 meters deep and has a diameter of about 25 meters – its walls give recognizable evidence of the presence of a large quantity of ashes as well as human remains – was further excavated in order to discover the depth of the pit in this part of the camp. Numerous human remains were found by these excavations, partially still in a state of decomposition.[208] The soil consists of ashes interspersed with sand, is of a dark gray color and granulous in form. During the excavations, the soil gave off an intense odor of burning and decay. At a depth of 7.5 meters the bottom was reached, which consisted of layers of unmixed sand. At this point the digging was stopped here.
can only be a former mass grave 7.5 meters deep, later emptied of the bodies and then refilled with soil and partial human remains left over by cremation.

Or that he is perfectly conscious of this and deliberately ignored it, as becomes a compulsory liar like him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
Retardo:

"The mass grave by the "Lazarett" may not even have been located during the Lukaszkiewicz’ investigation."

What a lying P.O.S. you are Roberta. We all know that Lukaszkiewicz admitted that he investigated this pit and concluded: "There were no human remains found."
Poor Gerdes is again having (or feigning) understanding problems.

I’m not denying that Lukaszkiewicz wrote this:

Quote:
Excavations were begun on the grounds using the services of 20 workers who had been mustered by the village administration for carrying out roadwork. The excavations began at the location described by the witness Rajzman on November 6, where the so-called ‘camp hospital’ had stood and where, according to the witness, a mass grave is supposed to exist.
Since a bomb crater 4 to 5-meter deep is present at the said location – two bombs still lie at a slight distance from this crater – the digging was begun in this crater. In the course of this work numerous Polish, as well as Russian, German, Austrian, and Czech coins as well as broken pieces of various kinds of containers were discovered. At the end of the work, at approximately 3 pm, at a depth of 6 meters, we encountered a layer which had not been reached previously. There were no human remains found.
What I’m saying is that the bomb crater in which the digging was done need not have been the mass grave of the "Lazarett" (i.e. that the digging may have been done in the wrong place).

Alternatively, the mass grave of the "Lazarett" may have been cleared out during the camp’s dismantlement and then turned into a deeper pit for burying discarded objects.

Either way, the fact that Lukaszkiewicz did not find human remains in this particular place doesn’t mean what Gerdes would like it to mean.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
Retardo:

"It was completely cleared out during the camp’s dismantlement and then turned into a deeper pit to bury useless objects in."

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

Have I ever told you that you're priceless Roberta?

It appears you have your magic glasses on again. So please tell us dull one -
Poor Gerdes is again trying to cover up his lack of arguments with hysterical laughter and invective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
What happened to the human remains that were removed from the lazarett pit?
Simple answer to a stupid question: I don’t know. Probably nobody does. So what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
Give us the EXACT location that they were moved to and the PROOF that you have to back up your baseless allegation. (Shouldn't be hard for someone with magic glasses on.)
The proof game in this case goes as follows, Mr. Gerdes:

You contended that Lukaszkiewicz’ not having found human remains in a crater where he thought the "Lazarett" mass grave to have been means that there was no "Lazarett" mass grave.

I pointed out that there are also other possibilities.

You have to rule out these other possibilities (which is not done my demanding that I prove them, of course).

Unless you can rule out these other possibilities, they must be considered as such.

And given the eyewitness evidence to the shootings at the "Lazarett", which includes the depositions before a West German court of two shooters, both of whom were sentenced to lifetime imprisonment for their crimes, my alternative possibilities stand a far better chance of accurately explaining Lukaszkiewicz’ findings - to say the least - than your wishful thinking.

But that’s all too hard for your tiny brain to understand, isn’t it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
Retardo:

"I’m waiting for time and means to go to Sobibor, obtain permission to disturb the ash heap (which I doubt will be granted) and enlist the services of an expert to analyze the human remains and certify that they are in fact human remains (which I also doubt anyone will do for just little me)."

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!

So you now admit that Kola never took any core samples of the "ash mountain?"
I don’t remember having claimed that Prof. Kola took core samples from the ash heap. That must have been one of Gerdes’ hallucinations – or then the fellow is lying again.

Where am I supposed the have claimed that Kola took core samples from the ash heap, Gerdes? Exact quote, post number and link to that post, please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
You lie so much Retardo, you've lost track of your many lies
Actually that’s what exactly applies to Gerdes. I’ve lost track of the lies I’ve rubbed his nose in, whereas he has made a fool of himself every time he lamely accused me of lying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
Retardo:

"The aspect of the substance that the mound consists of, which has a light gray coloration different from the light-brown color of the soil at Sobibor (see photos mentioned in answer B.3 above) suggests the accuracy of captions describing this mound as a mound consisting of or containing human ashes."

And my earlier response:

"Notice how the lying jewbitch is trying to imply that there have been core samples taken from the mound. Let's see the photos of these alleged core samples and lets see the results of the analysis of the alleged samples."

Roberta:

Quote:
"...The conclusion that the mound in question is comprised of human ash is thus the conclusion that is borne out by all known evidence and belied by none. It is also the conclusion towards which various sources of evidence independent of each other converge. This convergence of various sources of evidence independent of each other, alone or together with the absence of any evidence to the contrary, is proof that the mound in question is comprised of human ash."

More from Retardo (with my earlier response):

Roberta:

Quote:
"The human ashes that the mound at Sobibor is comprised of may have been dug out of one of more of the pits discovered by Prof. Kola in 2001. They were probably brought to the surface by postwar robbery digging, which would mean it is impossible to determine which of the grave pits contained these specific ashes.
Desperately trying to put words I didn’t say into my mouth, aren’t you, liar? (Note that the liar doesn’t identify the posts he quotes from – guess why.)

I already addressed the your presumably deliberate misreading of the first of my above quotes, in my post # 1014 under http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...postcount=1014 (emphasis added):

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
Later in the same post:

E.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
9 - Show us proof that the "huge ash mountain" of Sobibor is actually comprised of human ash.

Roberta:

Quote:
"The aspect of the substance that the mound consists of, which has a light gray coloration different from the light-brown color of the soil at Sobibor (see photos mentioned in answer B.3 above) suggests the accuracy of captions describing this mound as a mound consisting of or containing human ashes."

Notice how the lying jewbitch is trying to imply that there have been core samples taken from the mound.
What is noticeable is that Gerdes cannot read or is too dumb to understand what I wrote. What I’m saying is that on these core samples:

http://www.sobibor.edu.pl/angielska/...adania/F5.html

http://www.sobibor.edu.pl/angielska/...adania/F6.html

http://www.sobibor.edu.pl/angielska/...adania/F7.html

you can see that the soil of Sobibor has a light-brown color, which is different from the light gray color of the mound. This means that the mound does not consist of soil. It consists of a light gray substance other than soil.
What could that substance be, Mr. Gerdes?
Was this explanation also too hard for your tiny brain to understand, Gerdes? Or did you just gloss over it, like the compulsive liar you are?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
So Kola discovered pits?

Let's see them.

Show us the pits that the alleged "human ash" was dug out of.

Let's see the photos of the construction of the "huge ash mountain."

What are you waiting for Roberta?
I’m waiting for Gerdes to continue making a fool of himself with his repetitive, irrelevant and infantile "let’s see them" and "show us" demands, his lame attempts to distort my statements and the other boring crap that his limited repertoire consists of. Mind what I wrote in post # 1035 under http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...postcount=1035

Quote:
And as concerns the contents of the Sobibor mass graves, an archaeologist's public statement in conjunction with the known documentary and eyewitness evidence to large-scale mass murder at Sobibor is proof enough. If you want further details you’ll have to wait for the results of ongoing archaeological research by the SAP. Archaeologists work according to their own schedules regardless of how often a hysterical retard yells "let’s see", you know. And I don’t give a damn about your hysterical yelling either.
Any part of that too hard for your depleted neurons to process, Gerdes?

Ah, and I’m also waiting for what I listed in my post # 1036 under http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php...postcount=1036 . Especially an answer to this question:

Quote:
I see three alternatives:

Alternative # 1: We can bore the hell out of our audience with your endless "show me, show me" – yelling, your repetitive irrelevant questions and my yawning responses to both.

Alternative # 2: We can let this discussion rest until more news from the current Sobibor investigations come in.

Alternative # 3: We can do something productive in the meantime by taking a look at the questions I have asked you throughout this discussion and further questions I would like to ask you, questions related to the relevance of your demands, to the physical evidence we have looked at, to the documentary and eyewitness evidence I have shown and to the hypothetical scenarios other than mass murder that you believe in.

From the point of view of our audience, I’d say Alternative # 3 is the most interesting.

As concerns Greg Gerdes, Alternative # 1 is what he will choose if he decides to continue behaving like the lying coward he has so far shown himself to be, Alternative # 2 is the neutral choice and Alternative # 3 is the one he will choose if he should manage to overcome his cowardice and if he has a minimum of genuine interest in the historical events we have been talking about.

So which of them shall it be, Mr. Gerdes?

Alternative # 1 ?

Alternative # 2 ?

or

Alternative # 3 ?
And given that Gerdes is as much a coward as he dumb liar, I don’t expect my waiting to end. But that’s just fine. The more Gerdes displays the limitations of his intellect and his utter lack of character, the better.
 
Old August 29th, 2008 #1040
Roberto Muehlenkamp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
Retardo:

"The pit 7.5 meters deep... can only have been a former mass grave... What he did find was at least one mass grave..."

Notice that the dull one, despite Lukaszkiewicz's amission that: "During the work on the terrain, I found no mass graves," continues to insist that "at least on mass grave" was found.
Poor Gerdes, even this simple and clear-cut reasoning:

Quote:
The pit 7.5 meters deep containing lots of human remains, which is described in Lukaszkiewicz' site investigation report of 13 November 1945, can only have been a former mass grave. This means that when Lukaszkiewicz wrote that he found "no mass graves", he meant to say that he found "no mass graves full of stinking dead bodies". What he did find was at least one mass grave containing partial remains of human bodies. And he found an area of 20,000 square meters covered by ashes, bone fragments and other partial remains, which can only have been the area of the Treblinka "death camp" section that had contained the mass graves.
was too hard for him to follow.

Next he’ll probably freak out again and go messing around with what I wrote. Stay tuned, folks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerdes
One.

Where is this alleged "former" mass grave Retardo?

EXACT location please.
Simple answer to irrelevant and silly demand:

Exact location is the mass graves area of the former "death camp" sector of Treblinka extermination camp. More detailed coordinates are currently unknown to me.

But as we’re at it, I just found more detailed coordinates for the Chelmno mass graves. Have a look under http://www.muzeum.com.pl/en/chelmno.htm# :

Quote:
3. Archeological work carried out in 2003-2004.
The cemetery in the Rzuchów Forest.
Between 1960 and 1964 a great and difficult task of tidying up and commemorating the great cemetery in the Rzuchów Forest was undertaken. Unfortunately, these actions often caused irreversible damage, obliterating the traces of the barbarian acts committed here. The need to carry out archival and field research was neglected; an important element - the Chełmno residents' memory - was not made use of. Many of the residents knew the postwar layout of the clearings, as well as the post-crematorium and post-grave sites from their personal observation. A few decades after the war, the accounts collected by the Museum were very helpful at carrying out the excavations.
The basic aim of starting the archeological work in the cemetery was to verify whether the boundaries of mass graves marked with stone walls between 1962-1964 were correct.
The data acquired from two photointerpretations of the aerial photographs of 1986 and 2002 needed to be verified and the remaining crematoria found. Furthermore, within the scope of capabilities, the location of the trenches for burying human ashes described by Bednarz and linked to the first phase of the center operation needed to be verified.
The research in the cemetery was carried out with the application of methods which did not disturb the layers and places where human remains were expected to be found. We adopted the method of intersecting objects on the photointerpretations with 1-meter long probes, thus obtaining a legible horizontal stratigraphy, that is a photograph of sod and a humus layer, only sporadically reaching deeper, when stratigraphy was disturbed. Due to the large extend of the research, it was decided to make boreholes in the places where clarifications were needed.
The cemetery grounds were divided into plots; the terminology was adapted from the terminology of forest land maps.

Plot II
The first grave.
During the first research in the cemetery in 1986, we came across a trace of, most likely, one of the two first graves, described by District Forester Heinz May in his account. The 2003 research examined the extent of the grave. It is situated parallel to an old forest track (about 18 m towards the West) running through the clearing marked as plot II along the NW-SE line. The grave has an irregular shape; the width of the northern part can be established at 8 m and narrows by 3 meters towards the south. Its length equals 62 m. More or less in the middle, it is cut by a concrete road of the period between 1962 and 1964. Its irregular shape and relatively insignificant length in comparison with the other graves indicate that the grave was dug by hand. Under the humus, on the top of the ash layer, we found several unburned objects belonging to the victims. These are: flatware, a mirror with the image of a young woman on the back, a bottle, a toothbrush, a full box of the Nicea cream (with the inscription "Posen"). Finding small objects belonging to the victims may confirm the assumption that the grave comes from the initial period of the center operation, when, most likely, a certain number of people were buried with their clothes (January 1942). While uncovering the grave we noticed that the earth must have contained some active substances: protective rubber gloves became destroyed.
Collected earth samples were examined by the Karol Marcinkowski University of Medical Sciences in Poznań, Department of Forensic Medicine. Caustic substances in the grave may provide evidence for experiments connected with liquidation of corpses. The special unit (Sonderkommando) under the command of SS Hauptsturmführer Herbert Lange, which in autumn 1941 in the Kazimierz Forest near Konin killed an undetermined group of victims by boiling them alive in pits filled with quicklime, was later transferred to the center in Chełmno at that time being established. It seems very likely that the attempts to liquidate the corpses with the use of lime were shifted to Chełmno. This method apparently did not prove successful with a significant number of bodies. In the cemetery thus far we have not come across another such place where the earth would contain active chemical substances.

Plot III
It is marked by a rectangular clearing running along the forest track. The main objective of the research carried out at this plot was to check the route of the grave situated in it. In the years 1962-1964 mass graves in the cemetery were marked with stone walls. The analysis of the aerial photos raised considerable doubts as to the correctness of establishing their location. Furthermore, the scope of the research program was widened trough the issue of explaining the existence of a "furnace" situated on the opposite side of the old forest track, at the south-western entrance to the clearing, marked on the 1951 plan by geodesists. A probing survey excluded the existence of a crematorium or any other construction at the site. In the place of an "interval" in the forested area, opposite the alleged furnace, during a probing survey we found traces of strengthening the track with demolition debris (not from chamotte brick) and traces of posts (strengthened inside the pits with broken limestone), possibly linked to the fence whose construction is mentioned by H. May. Probably in this place there was the entrance to the clearing, which is why it was necessary to strengthen the junction and the forest track.
Difficult to be unambiguously explained is the fact of finding lumps of coke.

The second grave, so-called "włocławska"
Situated about 20 m east of the old forest track, the grave runs parallel to it. Its current length is marked with a stone wall and equals 185 m. In order to establish its actual run, transverse probes were put up, while in inaccessible places drills were made.
On the basis of the drills made, it was possible to state that the clearing where the grave is situated was originally longer: it stretched over 45 m further south. The grave had an irregular width, ranging from about 7 m in the southeastern part, through about 10 m in the middle part, to only 4 m in the northeastern edge. While the new layout was being uncovered, the existence of burned-out objects and ashes as well as crushed human bones both burned and unburned was stated. Moreover, a number of unburned objects belonging to the victims were found, e.g. metal pots, a fragment of a pipe, a fragment of a photo of a man on a porcelain plaque. Further part of the grave contains burned-out objects mixed with inclusions of ash and bonemeal as well as lumps of burn waste and coke. Striking is also the absence of objects belonging to the victims. The total length of the grave equals 254 m. Its southeastern edge was established on the basis of drills. The depth established on the basis of drills equals 3 m. The aerial photograph of May 1942, very important for the cemetery research, shows both clearings; the graves were probably masked. However, the photograph of October 1944 clearly shows the clearings with the graves and the place where the burned-out forest used to grow. The burnt-out forest is the evidence of involving burning corpses with Thermite bombs during the first phase of the center operation. The dimensions and size of the two observed grave segments seem to indicate that it was formed during a longer period of time. The northern segment was probably dug by hand. The dimensions and the straight line of the grave's southern segment's edge suggest that it was probably made with the use of mechanical equipment. The character of the contents of both segments also suggests the existence of two phases of the grave formation. The northern segment contains a number of unburned objects belonging to the victims, which may suggest burying corpses with their clothes. Absence of objects in the southern segment may indicate burying the victims naked. The emptying of the graves probably was also done at other times. The northern segment of the grave may probably be linked to different attempts to remove the corpses, burn them inside the graves or in primitive furnaces-hearths as well as to the process of crushing bones. In the other segment, bones ground into bonemeal can already be found. During one of the traverse probing surveys we found a fragment of a smoked concrete pipe. This may suggest that in some part of the grave, perhaps in the initial phase, corpses were burned. South of the grave a round aluminum badge with no. 1280 and a hole for hanging the badge was found. According to the accounts of the employed workers, in the period between 1962-1964 when the cemetery was being tidied, 6 similar badges were found near the "włocławska" grave. They were later handed over to the Town Council in Dąbie, which further handed them over to a newly-established Museum in Chełmno. Interesting is the fact that the badges have the same diameter, while the numbers on most of them form a sequence: 3276, 3277, 3378, 3280, 3281, 2521. In the Chełmno estate grounds, near the granary, a smaller badge with number 1104 was found. It is unknown which group of prisoners had to wear such badges. Significantly greater quantities (over 300) of such numbered badges made of concrete were found during archeological research in Bełżec; their function, however, has not been explained there either. Perhaps an answer to this question lies in the organization of labor camps for Jews.


Plot IV

It is represented by the largest of the clearings, with the shape of an irregular quadrilateral. Objects described as graves are located in the eastern part of the clearing. Objects interpreted as furnaces for burning corpses are situated in the western part of the clearing. The aim of the research was to determine the actual layout of the graves as well as recognize the objects known from the photointerpretations of the aerial photographs in its eastern part. Taken in 1998, the aerial photos of the cemetery grounds suggested the existence of unexplained parallel lines between the forest wall and the third grave, which may have indicated the existence of one more mass grave. In order to explain this issue, traverse probes were set up and several drills made. It was stated that these were the traces of deep plowing, done with forest plows.
On account of the character of the objects located in the clearing, the method of surface uncovering of the objects' outlines was adopted within the whole terrain, and, in case of doubts, drilling was to be made.

The third grave.
Located parallel to the forest wall. On the basis of probing surveys and drills, it was stated that it reaches the forest from the south (SE), insignificantly entering its area. It passes under the forest track, which during the war most likely in this part of the clearing ran along the then forest wall, situated further on than the present one. A stone wall (about 135 meters long), which was to determine the stretch of the grave, is narrower by 2 m than the actual width of the grave. Its total length equals 174 m, width about 8 m. The contents of the grave includes sandy soil with gravel, burn waste, ash, and crushed human bones.

The fourth grave.
It is represented by a 140-metre-long wall. Located between the third and the fifth graves; its presumed location does not correspond with the actual location. The fundamental fourth grave is located between the wall of the fourth non-existent grave and covers the whole fifth grave. Its actual width equals 10 m, while its length is 182 m. It is filled with gray sandy soil mixed with inclusions of burn waste, ash and crushed bones.

The fifth grave
The last grave, or rather a line of pits filled with ashes, was not commemorated with any walls; in the 1960s it was already not discernible on the surface. On the basis of the description by Judge W. Bednarz it appears that in 1945 the pits were examined by him.
The total length of these pits equals 161 m. The stretch is made up of 11 pits, each located about 2-3 m from another. The dimensions of the pits vary from 9x7.5 m to 15.50x8.50 m. They are filled with gray soil with a significant mixture of burn waste and crushed human bones. In the southern (SE) part of the grave the bones found in the pits used to be ground; those in further parts - crushed. According to W. Bednarz, the depth of the pits was about 4 m, and the width 8-10 m. Even now the flora on the pits is more luxuriant, making this stretch more visible on the surface.
Was that why you struck Chelmno from the NAFCASH challenge, Mr. Gerdes?

It wouldn’t surprise me at all.

And neither would another round of the inevitable "let’s see some photos" – howling.

Or will it be "how many ounces of crushed human bones"?
 
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