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Old July 4th, 2006 #41
MOMUS
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Having seen the photos of the dressed stone flooring I concede that something was built there. I'll grant the possibility that ancients may have shaped a native hill into a pryamid. Perhaps they had knowlege of the ones in Egypt. The reasoning behind ancient religion (or modern for that matter) is inscrutable to me. I think of the giant stone heads of Easter Island.
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Old July 4th, 2006 #42
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When I first laid eyes upon the photos of the pyramid, my first thoughts were of mesoamerican pyramids, such as these:










A cone-shaped pyramid in England:







Why was the pyramid in question, built near hills? Maybe for the same reason that Machu Picchu was built in the mountains of Peru:


Here is a link to the site from where I got these photos:
http://www.accordingtothescriptures..../towermap.html (it's a xtian site, trying to link these monuments with the tower of babel, but the map and photographs, suits my purposes).

It is said that the blond haired, blue eyed Votan, who sounds suspiciously like Wotan or Odin (The Wanderer), traveled to Mesoamerica with "ruddy, blued eyed people" (Thracians), and deposited them there, teaching them many things before departing (for what purpose, only the All-Father knows). I am beginning to wonder, if there is a link between our ancestral Gods, and these pyramids.
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Old July 4th, 2006 #43
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Two egyptian scientists have already confirmed the Bosnian pyramid to be manmade.

Quote:
Barakat: ‘This is man-made pyramid’

The two Egyptian scientists working at the Bosnian pyramids - geologist Barakat and archeologist Lamia El Hadidi – have made some of their findings public prior to completing their work at the site. They conclude that there are ancient man-made structures in the Visocica Hill region.

When he first arrived in Bosnia, geologist Barakat said that Visocica Hill was probably ‘some kind of primitive pyramid’. After more than a month working at the site, his opinion remains unchanged.

Barakat said, “For me, as a scientist and geologist, there’s still no doubt that this is man-made. I think that humans cut, polished, reshaped and formed stone blocks {that form the pyramid), bringing them here and adding them to the existing hill in order to give the shape of a pyramid to the hill.”

Archaeologist El Hadidi added that a large archaeological site has been found on the so-called Pyramid of the Moon, near to the Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun. She said they were unable, at this stage, to date the site, saying that further research is needed. However, she confirmed earlier conclusions that this site also represents a pyramid. “It is really impossible that nature creates shapes like this. Maybe one, but not three or four sides of the hill as we have here. There is still a lot of work to be done here, if we want to unveil all the secrets of this valley.”

Scepticism about the existence of the pyramids remains within parts of the scientific community. This may be partly because the site in Bosnia does not represent our traditional image of pyramids - as in Egypt - but a different kind of structure where stones have been placed around an existing hill to form the shape of a pyramid.

A complex of manmade tunnels has also been found at the site. It has been suggested that the tunnels may connect the three pyramids. In one of the tunnels, a large polished monolith has been found with unknown carved inscriptions including arrows and a shape similar to our letter ‘E’.
 
Old July 4th, 2006 #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietus
....It is said that the blond haired, blue eyed Votan, who sounds suspiciously like Wotan or Odin (The Wanderer), traveled to Mesoamerica with "ruddy, blued eyed people" (Thracians), and deposited them there, teaching them many things before departing (for what purpose, only the All-Father knows). I am beginning to wonder, if there is a link between our ancestral Gods, and these pyramids.
Brother you are not alone. Those were my thoughts too.

While wandering Illinois and seeing the ruins of Cahokia, the rains of summer and freezing storms of winter have worn Monk's Mound down a lot in recent years. But I can still see part of the grand design. And there were whites on the lakes close by, long ago. Another of Voton's works?

Monk's Mound, Cahokia, Illinois, USA:

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Old July 4th, 2006 #45
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Depending on the photographic angle, it looks very manmade. Nature isn't that symmetrical, especially with topography. Land is more varied, erosion, etc.

By the way, why are we spending so much money digging up pyramids in Africa and Mexico when we have ones in European countries such as in these photos that have clearly not been excavated?!
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Old July 5th, 2006 #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagergeld
Depending on the photographic angle, it looks very manmade. Nature isn't that symmetrical, especially with topography. Land is more varied, erosion, etc.

By the way, why are we spending so much money digging up pyramids in Africa and Mexico when we have ones in European countries such as in these photos that have clearly not been excavated?!
G_d forbid that it can be credibly established that Aryan civilization pre-dated the semites in Europe and the Middle East and Asia. The whole "academic" world of jew history would be exposed for the fraud that it truly is.
 
Old July 5th, 2006 #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagergeld
By the way, why are we spending so much money digging up pyramids in Africa and Mexico when we have ones in European countries such as in these photos that have clearly not been excavated?!
A practical matter to consider: Europeans build and shape their environment constantly. Big structures in Africa and Mesoamerica were left alone. White folk don't leave nothing alone.

There were tons of ancient sacred sites in Ireland that we still know about because heathen geniuses pretended to be "Christian monks" and built round towers over them. By a flukish coincidence only recently it was discovered that the Irish towers match constellations in the sky exactly like the pyramids in the Nile delta. The land and specific work was different. The Grand Design was the same.

The Grand Designers were the same too.
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Old July 5th, 2006 #48
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Most ancient people didn't know too much about the stars, beyond making up silly names for them, like Fritzie's Big Toe.

All that constellation stuff is complete and total bunk, outside of Egypt. Ley lines the same thing, stupid. It's all coinky-dink and wishful thinking.
 
Old July 5th, 2006 #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abzug Hoffman
All that constellation stuff is complete and total bunk, outside of Egypt.
Why would Egypt be any different from England or other places? I doubt they match astronomical alignments by coincidence.
 
Old July 5th, 2006 #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietus
It is said that the blond haired, blue eyed Votan, who sounds suspiciously like Wotan or Odin (The Wanderer), traveled to Mesoamerica with "ruddy, blued eyed people" (Thracians), and deposited them there, teaching them many things before departing (for what purpose, only the All-Father knows). I am beginning to wonder, if there is a link between our ancestral Gods, and these pyramids.
I read up on this Votan, sounds very interesting, quite similar to the Quetzalcoatl myth. Is said to have sailed 'from Cuba' but could easily have sailed from much further away. Also, the date of 600 BC seems to roughly match up with something I heard somewhere about Odin being traced to 500 AD on the Black Sea. Also the 'Balum-Wotan' sounds similar to the biblical 'Balaam' who was a gentile king/prophet.

http://www.famousamericans.net/votan/

OTAN, founder of the empire of Xibalbay. He lived, according to Ramon de Ordofiez y Aguiar, in his manuscript " Historia del cielo y de la tierra," about 955 u. c., or, according to Francisco Nufiez de la Vega, in his "Constituciones Diocesanos para el Obispado de Chiapas" (Rome, 1702), about 600 B.C. Votan appears to have been a generic name for sovereigns of the valley of Chiapas. According to Ordofiez, Votan sailed from Cuba with his people, and, after coasting Yucatan, entered the Laguna de Terminos, went up Usumasinta river, and on one of its branches, the Chacamas, founded the city of Nathan or Culhuacan, near the present site of the ruins of Palenque. He conquered the country with little difficulty, and became its legislator, building at Nachan a temple, where he deposited the archives of the nation, which were guarded by priests and nuns, and established also religious mysteries, which were celebrated with great pomp and splendor in the spring and autumn. Votan founded also the cities of Zacatlan or Ciudad Real, Matlan or Quiche, and Huchuetlan or Soconusco. It is also asserted that he promulgated a code of laws for his empire, which attained great prosperity, but it is generally conceded that the legislator of Xibalbay was BALUM-VOTAN, who lived about four centuries after the founder of the empire. He is said to have written the national code of the Quiches, "Popol-Vuh," the original of the "Teomaxtli," or divine book of the Toltecs. The "Popol-Vuh" was first translated into Spanish about 1650 by Friar Francisco Ximenes (q. v.), and Brasseur de Bourbourg published the original text and French translations (Paris, 1861). The traditions of the Tzendales in regard to the Votans are confirmed by Francisco de Burgoa, in his "Palestra Historica: o Historia de la provincia de San Hipelito de Guaxaca" (Mexico, 1670); by Bernardino de Sahagun, in his "Historia de las cosas de la Nueva Espana"" by an anonymous Mexican author of Cuahutitlan, a contemporary of Montezuma II., in Historia de los reynos de Culhuacan y Mexico, a manuscript in the Nahuatl language, which was discovered in 1850 by Brasseur de Bourbourg in the library of the convent of San Gregorio" and by many other authors. Ordofiez asserts that he possessed a manuscript history of the reign of Balum-Votan in the original language" but it is now lost.
 
Old July 5th, 2006 #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abzug Hoffman
Most ancient people didn't know too much about the stars, beyond making up silly names for them, like Fritzie's Big Toe.

All that constellation stuff is complete and total bunk, outside of Egypt. Ley lines the same thing, stupid. It's all coinky-dink and wishful thinking.
If ancient Europeans knew nothing about star lore then how do you account for this?

Quote:
http://s8int.com/page18.html
The Nebra Sky Disk

by Lise Hull

In September of 2002, German archaeologists revealed a Bronze Age find with the potential to change modern-day thought about how the ancients viewed their relationship to the stars, moon, and sun, and how they may have used solar observatories to predict the cycle of life.

Based on its association with other Bronze Age artifacts found near Nebra, a site located about 110 miles southwest of Berlin in eastern Germany, archaeologists believe that the bronze Sangerhausen Star Disk may be 3,600 years old.

Click and drag photo to resize.

Despite having been discovered about four years ago by metal detectorists illegally working the site, it was not until July of 2002 that authorities seized the artifact, along with two swords, two axes, a chisel, and a set of arm-rings, and arrested the people who had plundered the site. Only then were archaeologists able to pinpoint exactly where the looters had unearthed the plate-like disk and begin excavating the site.

Thus far, archaeologists have uncovered a circular earthen embankment some 200 yards in diameter, which encloses the entire site and includes a series of ramparts and ditches that were used continually from 1,600 to 700 BC.

Valued at about $10 million, the disk’s images were embossed with gold leaf. They display the sun (or a full moon), a crescent moon, the horizon, and 32 stars, several of which may represent the Pleiades, the star cluster used by Bronze Age peoples to predict the timing of autumn and the fall harvest.

If determined to be authentic, the Star Disk could be the earliest astronomical map in existence, and the forested site where it was found—Mittelberg hill—might be the home to the oldest surviving solar observatory.

Speculating that the structure was a celestial observatory, astronomer Wolfhard Schlosser from the University of Bochum, said, “The site’s special aspect can be seen in the correct determination of at least two important dates. On June 21, the sun can be seen from here to set exactly behind the Brocken, the most important mountain in the Harz, and on May 1, the sun sets behind the Kulpenberg, the highest hill of the Kyffhäuser.”

Superficially, then, the Nebra site has similarities to other henge sites in Europe, including Stonehenge and Avebury, both of which were enclosed with earthen banks and ditches. However, since the German site was constructed with timber logs rather than stone slabs, it is more similar to Woodhenge, an ancient site in England where timber uprights were erected instead of stone.

The Purpose of the Disk

While scholars have wrestled with the possibility that such megalithic sites functioned as some sort of celestial observatory, they have been unable to offer concrete physical proof to bolster their theories. So the association of the Star Disk with the henge-like structure at Nebra may be just the breakthrough they have been seeking. The images on the Star Disk may even correlate with the view of the night sky as seen from Mittelberg hill during the Bronze Age.

Besides identifying several astronomical bodies on the bronze disk, scholars have offered a variety of interpretations about the two curved shapes depicted opposite each other on the object. According to Professor Schlosser, the two gold bands represent an angle of 82.5°.

This represents the circle of the daily period passing from the summer solstice on June 21 to the winter solstice on December 21 in central Germany. A third more curved gold band lies between the two horizon arcs, and may represent either the Milky Way or a ship sailing between the horizons across the nocturnal celestial ocean.

Archaeologist Harald Meller, director of State Museum for Prehistory in Halle, Germany, believes that both the circular building and the Star Disk were used by the ancients to track the sun’s movement from winter to summer solstices, providing information on when to sow and harvest their crops.

Findings from the Nebra excavations will be published in early 2003, and a conference on the subject is planned for 2004 in Halle, Germany, where the Star Disk is currently being studied.

Future plans for the site near Nebra include reconstructing the solar observatory and turning the hilltop into a tourist attraction so that visitors will be able to experience how the structure may have functioned during prehistoric times.

Perhaps by then, sufficient evidence will exist to determine whether the bronze plate is authentic and confirm both its original purpose and that the henge site was used by the ancients as a solar observatory. Its broader implications may change the way archaeoastronomers understand the prehistoric world, how megalithic monuments were used, and whether or not the ancients had an intellectual sophistication that modern humans have yet to define.

Source: John (Hans) Pohland

Mysteries Magazine.com
 
Old July 6th, 2006 #52
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There is a relatively new discipline of science called archaeogeodesy. It concerns itself with the relationships of ancient monuments and megaliths with each other, the naturally occurring electro-magnetic forces of Earth, and the relationships with the cosmos itself. "Dot-Connectors".
 
Old July 6th, 2006 #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aryan Lord
If ancient Europeans knew nothing about star lore then how do you account for this?
I actually took an star map outside and learned the names of the stars when I was younger. To this day, I know a sky map when I see one, and that ancient find is not one.

I have a degree in anthropology, and one thing I know is you can't take one artifact/piece of art from an alien culture and "explain" it based on what it looks like to you. Some times you can work out a theory, going from the known to the unknown. Even then, it could be wrong.

Look, modern books are just full of silly bunk. This is part of the dumbing down of libraries, the same as they dumbed down schools. They don't want you to have real scientific knowledge, because you might be dangerous then. So they lead kids astray with esp, time travel, ley lines, astrology - all sorts of nonsense to keep you busy. And they drag ancients in to give it a respectable "history". This fools a lot of people into thinking there must be something to it. But it's romantic bosh.

Last edited by Abzug Hoffman; July 6th, 2006 at 12:35 PM.
 
Old July 6th, 2006 #54
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I would say, Abzug, that you are the one who has a difficult time separating fact from fantasy.
 
Old July 7th, 2006 #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abzug Hoffman
How many pyramids are there in Scandinavia or former Viking lands? I would like a factual answer, here, please!
Its hard to say what may be buried in Scandinavian lands. There are of course, the mounds at Uppsala. Also, the Temple at Uppsala no longer stands, so who is to say what the shape of it was. Futhermore, a lot more research needs to be done, to understand why pyramids and other monuments, were or were not built in certain areas. Not all important monuments are pyramids.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Abzug Hoffman
I'm the most factual one here.
Yeah right, Abbie.
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Old July 7th, 2006 #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abzug Hoffman
I actually took an star map outside and learned the names of the stars when I was younger. To this day, I know a sky map when I see one, and that ancient find is not one.

I have a degree in anthropology, and one thing I know is you can't take one artifact/piece of art from an alien culture and "explain" it based on what it looks like to you. Some times you can work out a theory, going from the known to the unknown. Even then, it could be wrong.

Look, modern books are just full of silly bunk. This is part of the dumbing down of libraries, the same as they dumbed down schools. They don't want you to have real scientific knowledge, because you might be dangerous then. So they lead kids astray with esp, time travel, ley lines, astrology - all sorts of nonsense to keep you busy. And they drag ancients in to give it a respectable "history". This fools a lot of people into thinking there must be something to it. But it's romantic bosh.
With your degree in Anthropology, you would know that Archaeology is a minor discipline, and you would also know that Archaeoastronoy and Archaeogeodesy are two specialized areas of Archaeology, all under the major Anthroplogy. Just because the new age "religion" has made a questionable ideology out of scientific facts does not negate scientific facts. True science neither supports nor negates religion. True science could care less about religion. Conflict of interests. What part of Anthropolgy/Archaeology/Archeoastronomy/Arcaeogeodesy do you not recognize as valid scientific pursuit of knowledge? While it is true that a more tangible pursuit of these disciplines are better obtained in schools of higher education from other countries and not the Kwa, such as Russia, these areas lie within the realms of valid scientific pursuit. Valid scientific pursuit is not new age "religion" anymore than it is christian religion or the religion of the jude. To take any religion and attempt to negate scientific facts with it is absurd, to say the least. If religion were to prevail over science, you would not be sitting at that computer attempting to negate scientific findings with your religious view of life. So you have caves that are naturally occurring and not man-made. For one, you don't have them, the world of Natural History does. Claiming that "your" naturally occuring caves proves that the tunnels and caves at the Bosnia pyramid are not man-made is a little "confused" wouldn't you say? Did you buy your degree in Anthropolgy?
 
Old July 7th, 2006 #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirt
With your degree in Anthropology, you would know that Archaeology is a minor discipline, and you would also know that Archaeoastronoy and Archaeogeodesy are two specialized areas of Archaeology, all under the major Anthroplogy. Just because the new age "religion" has made a questionable ideology out of scientific facts does not negate scientific facts. True science neither supports nor negates religion. True science could care less about religion. Conflict of interests. What part of Anthropolgy/Archaeology/Archeoastronomy/Arcaeogeodesy do you not recognize as valid scientific pursuit of knowledge? While it is true that a more tangible pursuit of these disciplines are better obtained in schools of higher education from other countries and not the Kwa, such as Russia, these areas lie within the realms of valid scientific pursuit. Valid scientific pursuit is not new age "religion" anymore than it is christian religion or the religion of the jude. To take any religion and attempt to negate scientific facts with it is absurd, to say the least. If religion were to prevail over science, you would not be sitting at that computer attempting to negate scientific findings with your religious view of life. So you have caves that are naturally occurring and not man-made. For one, you don't have them, the world of Natural History does. Claiming that "your" naturally occuring caves proves that the tunnels and caves at the Bosnia pyramid are not man-made is a little "confused" wouldn't you say? Did you buy your degree in Anthropolgy?
I know archeology is full of people with agendas and crackpot ideas. And you seem to be one of them.
Calm down. If these Egyptians are right, I'm sure it will be generally accepted. If they are mistaken or pranksters, they wouldn't be the first.

I don't trust these Egyptians, myself, but time will tell, I suppose.
 
Old July 7th, 2006 #58
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Any stuctural engineer can tell if it was man-made once enough of it's been excavated. The Egyptians are familiar with ancient works, which is probably why they were called in. There won't be doubt about this much longer.
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Old July 8th, 2006 #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abzug Hoffman
I know archeology is full of people with agendas and crackpot ideas. And you seem to be one of them.
Calm down. If these Egyptians are right, I'm sure it will be generally accepted. If they are mistaken or pranksters, they wouldn't be the first.

I don't trust these Egyptians, myself, but time will tell, I suppose.
Your name calling and condescending attitude mean nothing to me, Abbie Hoffman.
 
Old July 8th, 2006 #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirt
Your name calling and condescending attitude mean nothing to me, Abbie Hoffman.
The best thing to do with trolls such as Green Man and Hymie Hoffmann is to ignore them. Don`t feed the trolls and they will go away!
 
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