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May 9th, 2019 | #1 |
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Dialects
Dialects are a part of languages / countries . . Definition of a dialect : A language / tongue which dissents from the officially standardised language of a region / script-language. . Let's look at Germany . . dialects are very many here. . In the case of Germany it is because the German people are not a single people . . We have Swabians , Frisians , Saxons etc . . For a long time there even wasn't any 'German standard language' . . Little breakdown on history . . Germany came to pass when after the great peoples' migration in Europe in ancient times the Franks under Charlemagne united Germanic tribes in the middle of Europe under their leadership . . . There were duchies , archduchies etc of different peoples . . They weren't really one. . . The first person who standardised German was the Protestant reformer Martin Luther ( he translated the Bible into what became known as 'high-German' ( Hochdeutsch ) ) . . The first ones to adopt 'Luther's German' in old times was the bourgeoisie of Northern Germany . . Today the 'best German' , it is said , is spoken in the Hannover region in Lower Saxony . . . . in time more or less the whole Northern German area adopted 'Luther's German' . . They abandoned their original dialect , 'Plattdeutsch',or the speakers of it became a minorty ( the language is still alive until today though ) . . 'Plattdeutsch' is based on the ancient Saxon tongue . . The Saxons were the tribe which settled in Northern Germany ( in contrast to the people today known as 'the Saxons' , living in the Dresden / Leipzig area ) . . Apart from that , there are other dialect areas in Germany. Swabian is spoken in the Stuttgart region ( Southern Germany ) for example . . It is related to 'Swiss-German' . . The ancient Swabians settled in that area . . Bavarian-based dialects are spoken in the federal state of Bavaria itself as well as in parts of Austria . . . The Western-German dialects include Mosel-franconian and the Rhineland-dialect . . They are even related to Dutch ( the bordering area ) . . These 'ripuarian' ( 'coastal' ) German dialects are said to be based on Frisian ( the ancient Germanic tribe which settled the coast in ancient times ) . . The Middle-German dialects include the dialects spoken in Upper Saxony and Thuringia. The city of Berlin is also known for its own dialect . . - - - I know in other European places like France it is known that Paris for example "speaks the best French" . . . Often "the best version of the respective language" is spoken in the respective capitals . . such is the case in France. But . . believe me . . it isn't the case for Germany Au contraire , the Berlin-dialect is quite far from standard-German . . Example . . The phrase "Das will ich kaufen" ("I want to buy that") in the Berlin-dialect would sound "Det will ick koofen". Berlin was chosen as the German capital once because it was the main city of Prussia ( Germany was united under Prussia ) , not the because the best German is spoken there - - - Anyway . . Concerning other Caucasian countries. . I know Britain also has quite a vivid dialect / tongue landscape with 'Oxford English' being regarded as the best British english. Same with the USA . . different regions , different influences in the language . . Concerning the English language in general . . I know that there are different varieties of English , like for example that 'Pidgin'-english spoken by Negroes especially in the Caribbean . . Jamaican 'Patois' . . ( based on trying to imitate the 'simplified English' the European colonial overseers spoke with the black slaves . .) - - - - In closing a song sung in the ancient dialect of my area ( Northern Germany ) . . Last edited by ColdFire; May 9th, 2019 at 01:39 PM. |
May 9th, 2019 | #2 |
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Well ColdFire, the small amount of German I know is all 'hochdeutsch' apparently the same as spoken in your area of northern Germany (Bremen/Hannover), so I would have trouble understanding a speaker from Bavaria or Austria or even Berlin. Depending on what English pronunciation you learned (I'm assuming 'Oxford' English?), it would probably be difficult for you to understand American southern accents. Most of my family came from the South and Texas, but I was born and grew up in the West, so I don't speak in a Southern accent, but the flatter, more monotoned 'Western' accent.
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My area brings that with itself . . Whereas many people in Germany even until this day have problems talking accent-free Hochdeutsch. But . . the ancient dialect of our area is also not forgotten even to the point that for children courses in 'Plattdeutsch' are offered to keep 'the old tongue of Northern Germany alive' . . Quote:
Bavarian is a very strong dialect and many Austrian dialects are based on Bavarian ( largely the same tribe of people ) . . As for the Berlin dialect , Berlin being located on the Northern German plain too , it did keep its dialect nevertheless . . . The Berlin-dialect is based on Plattdeutsch with Hochdeutsch-elements thrown in . . Quote:
I myself , when switching from German to English , speak a 'neutral' English , some might call that an 'English without any regional accent' , some would call it 'how a German tries to talk English' . . I can imitate a British accent if I want to as well as American but I'm 'neutral' Quote:
Though ,I watch many films in English language in the 'original' , i. e. not dubbed into German , and came across movies in 'British slang' as well as movies set in the American south with people talking typically . . I'm a bit trained on that field. Quote:
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May 9th, 2019 | #4 |
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I've always been fascinated by the fact that Italy has such a huge amount of languages, dialects and subdialects. The following linguistic map will give you an idea of what I'm talking about: |
May 9th, 2019 | #5 | |
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The area of the Italian peninsula where the city of Rome is located was called the 'Latinum' since old times. That's why the language "coming from that area" was / is called 'Latin'. Today Italian as it is written ( i. e. standard-Italian) is the language closest to ancient Latin. |
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May 9th, 2019 | #6 |
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I heard that in 'the Spanish-speaking world' there are also differences between for example Spain , Mexico , Chile et al . .
Spanish is the second most distributed language on Earth next to English . . No wonder there are differences . . Even in Spain itself . . As far as I know Castilian is the 'purest' Spanish . . Some even go so far as to claim that the 'Spanish' in Mexico for example is merely 'a Spanish slang' . . Same differences might probably exist for Portugal and Brazil . . . |
May 9th, 2019 | #7 | ||
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May 11th, 2019 | #8 | |
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Euro or semite
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I would still say Italian (mix of Germanic and Latin) would be closer to the ancient Latin (Indo/Euro) than Sardinian (Indo/Euro and Semitic) is just by listening to both spoken by natives. Latin is purely a European language while Sardinian has been modified considerably by Semitic foreigners who settled there to trade. https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0110141309.htm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenician_language Just my opinion. |
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May 11th, 2019 | #9 |
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I view Italian ( written Italian that is ) as direct descendant of Latin . .
Few things have changed . . The ending 'us' has been changed to 'o' , as in 'Claudius' - > 'Claudio' and some other things . . One of the advantages of Italian is that it is the preferred language for singing since every Italian word ( at least in written Italian) ends with a vocal ( a , e , i , o , u . . ) That's why Italian words are good for singing since words ending with a vocal at the end can be 'stretched' when singing . . 'Navi per mariiii. .' for example . . |
May 11th, 2019 | #10 | |
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May 11th, 2019 | #11 | ||
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May 11th, 2019 | #12 |
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A little more info on the German dialect sphere . . In post No. 1 I said that the German people are not a single people , hence the many tongues.
It is amazing to note that languages like Dutch and Swiss-German are reminiscent of ancient German dialects . . Dutch , if you will , is a German dialect . . Those who speak / understand neither , compare the two . . As is Swiss-German . . it is the closest related to Swabian. These two areas ( Switzerland ,Netherlands ) already early parted from 'Greater Germany' . . Dutch is closely related to the tongues of Western Germany ( the Rhine-region ) , 'ripuarian' . . Roughly speaking there are dialect regions in Germany based on Bavarians , Swabians , Frisians , Saxons , Thuringians and Franks . . Bavarian in the region of Bavaria , Swabian largely in the region of Württemberg , Frisian based dialects in the West ( Mosel , Rhineland ) , ancient Saxon ( Plattdeutsch ) still a a languge in the north , Thuringian-based dialects in Thuringia itself as well as Upper Saxon. The Franks , however , play a big role . . They were more or less "in between" . . There are Frankish-based regions in Bavaria , in Hesse , on the Mosel river even to the Rhineland . . 'Special cases' include for example 'Ruhrdeutsch' ( the German spoken in the Ruhr-area ) or the Berlin dialect . . |
May 11th, 2019 | #13 | |
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Su navi per mariiii
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May 11th, 2019 | #14 | |
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Italiano
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I assume the 'interesting excerpt' boils down to what I bolded in the quote, from 'wikipedia' in which the difference is like splitting hairs between my uneducated opinion and those of the author ...who in this rare case I'm actually familiar with. Mario Pei wrote the awful and biased translation from Italian into American English of de Fiori's book on il Duce, worked for the OSS and the 'War Department' during WWII (against the country of his birth and their allies), accepted a professorship at looney Columbia University after the war which was chock-full of the (((kind of folks))) we rant against on VNNF, a position he never could have secured without (((their))) approval btw, was a champion of (((internationalism))) and promoted esperanto as the world language, and last thing I can think of offhand is that lousy and jewy book he authored "Weasel Words" which was published around the time of his death and which I read in skewl (and still have somewhere). This guy was a sell-out douche, but wikipedia cites him as a brilliant linguist and scholar. But, alas I am not a linguist or a Columbia professor so I guess his opinion has more weight than mine. I just know in my heart that no red blooded Italian would ever say that some fucking semitized language spoken by island monkeys was more akin to one of their stellar gifts to the world, the Latin language than today's Italian is. But, who am I ...I'm just a commercial construction manager in NYC ...that deals with a lot of Italian Americans and guess what ...they all feel the same as I do. Cheers |
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May 11th, 2019 | #15 | |
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La ci darem la mano, La mi dirai di sģ: Vedi, non č lontano, Partiam, ben mio, da qui. Vorrei e non vorrei, Mi trema un poco il cor, Felice, č ver, sarei, Ma puņ burlarmi ancor! Vieni, mio bel diletto! Mi fa pietą Masetto. Io cangierņ tua sorte. Presto... non son pił forte. Andiam! Andiam! Andiam, andiam, mio bene, a ristorar le pene D’un innocente amor. I counted twenty words ending in a consonant in that short passage alone. That's more than one per line. And, if you consider the name of the opera that that is from, Don Giovanni, also contains a word ending in a consonant, that makes twenty-one. In this clip, the subtitles are in Italian on the top line and Spanish on the bottom line.
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May 12th, 2019 | #16 | |
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May 13th, 2019 | #17 | |
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Mario Pei
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I think Mario Pei was a douche, he wasn't just 'wrong' Stewart he was a fucking traitor. That doesn't necessarily invalidate his investigations into Romance languages (which I'm sure were peer reviewed), its simply that when someone like this sellout opines on an issue of some import to Euro culture my first reaction is bullshit. And especially an issue concerning his 'native' Italy, which he stabbed in the back to curry favor with some of the slimiest anglo/jews that have ever breathed free air. Like everything else, just my opinion. |
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May 13th, 2019 | #18 | ||||
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I don't actually speak Sardinian (few non-Sardinians do). I do, however, speak Italian and I studied Latin in school, so that obviously helps when you read texts in these languages and compare them to each other.
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May 13th, 2019 | #19 |
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Yawnnnn
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May 13th, 2019 | #20 |
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I didn't say that I can't "understand much Sardinian", I said that I don't speak it (because that's what you asked me). Do you understand the difference between active and passive knowledge of a language?
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