Vegetarians?

[Alex Linder]

Originally Posted by Mike in Denver

OK, sticking to personal experience.

The only thing I can add about my time as a vegetarian, is that my weight loss continued even though I was still drinking six or eight beers a week. For me, this would be good information. Also, probably because I was eating cheese and whole milk, the weight loss was slow and not severe like you see with vegans.

Makes sense. I don't see how anyone eating primarily vegetables could be fat.

The only other diet I've ever been on was the Atkins diet. The only time in my life I've ever been noticeably overweight was when I around 29 to 30 years old. I wasn't so observant then, so I can't tell you why I was overweight for these couple of years and no other time in my life.

The Atkins diet caused me to lose weight like a meth-head. I felt good on the diet, but it was a twitchy kind of feeling good--sort of like a constant two-cups-of coffee-too-much feeling good. Of course, I stayed on the induction phase of the diet for the four months I was on the diet. That is not recommended, but most fools do it. You can't drink beer on the diet, but you knew that.

Never done it, but read about it. I know it's rigorous. I suspect a lot of people who claim they're on it don't actually follow it. But I know one person who followed it successfully. I found Atkins quite believable as as writer.

Mike Mazzone was a strict fruitarian, and that's about the strictist diet, short of breatairianism, that anyone could follow. Dial him up, and ask him.

Good point, had forgot - he is a Creator.

[albion]

Salubrious Living (forum)
http://www.phpbbplanet.com/forum/vie...mforum=library

[OTPTT]

Originally Posted by Alex Linder

Did you used to eat lots of fast food, or processed food, and then make a change? If so, why?

When I was younger I ate a lot of fast food but have always preferred meals that can be purchased at Morrison's or their other restaurant Piccadilly. That is when I am forced to eat out when traveling. I avoid fast food restaurants because they have 65 IQ muds that fail to perform proper hygiene. I don't need to risk my health and don't care to support businesses that employ mud staffs.

I have also been guilty of eating frozen convenience food such as Lean Cuisine and the like but am trying to get away from that stuff. I really didn't have the room to prepare meals until I started to de-clutter and simplify my life. Recently purchased a very nice Farberware stainless steel cook set as I had few such items necessary for meal preparation.

My eating raw vegetables now is due to my getting older and feeling that I need all of the good nutrition that I can get which also includes the supplements I mentioned above. Cooking vegetables causes a loss of vitamins and nutrients whereas eating them raw doesn't. When I don't eat raw veggies I try and steam them only. Cooking them in a pot of water is a last resort.

While out earlier I went by the vegetable market up the street and purchase some more celery and a pack of broccoli. I had been eating already packed broccoli from the grocery store but will see if the straight from the ground version works for me as well.

Raw celery, broccoli, carrots, cucumbers, onions, radishes, and tomatoes are my favorites. Will likely add to these as I find others I enjoy. Have some squash but haven't tried it raw yet.

I'll list the supplements I take a little later as I've got to go take care of some family business in a few minutes.

[Alex Linder]

Originally Posted by albion

Salubrious Living (forum)
http://www.phpbbplanet.com/forum/vie...mforum=library

Thanks. Going to read this and see what the old fellow said.

[Alex Linder]

Originally Posted by OTPTT

When I was younger I ate a lot of fast food but have always preferred meals that can be purchased at Morrison's or their other restaurant Piccadilly. That is when I am forced to eat out when traveling. I avoid fast food restaurants because they have 65 IQ muds that fail to perform proper hygiene. I don't need to risk my health and don't care to support businesses that employ mud staffs.

I have also been guilty of eating frozen convenience food such as Lean Cuisine and the like but am trying to get away from that stuff. I really didn't have the room to prepare meals until I started to de-clutter and simplify my life. Recently purchased a very nice Farberware stainless steel cook set as I had few such items necessary for meal preparation.

My eating raw vegetables now is due to my getting older and feeling that I need all of the good nutrition that I can get which also includes the supplements I mentioned above. Cooking vegetables causes a loss of vitamins and nutrients whereas eating them raw doesn't. When I don't eat raw veggies I try and steam them only. Cooking them in a pot of water is a last resort.

While out earlier I went by the vegetable market up the street and purchase some more celery and a pack of broccoli. I had been eating already packed broccoli from the grocery store but will see if the straight from the ground version works for me as well.

Raw celery, broccoli, carrots, cucumbers, onions, radishes, and tomatoes are my favorites. Will likely add to these as I find others I enjoy. Have some squash but haven't tried it raw yet.

I'll list the supplements I take a little later as I've got to go take care of some family business in a few minutes.

What you say tracks with what I've read, specifically the loss of nutrients through all preparation but raw and steaming. I would have to say raw asparagus is better than anything, but if you don't garden it, it's not the same bought. I find it difficult to eat much unsoftened broccoli or cauliflower. Perhaps it's just a matter of practice. The raw foods crowd has many recipes, and different sauces for making their dishes more palatable.

[Mike in Denver]

Note: I have no idea how to multi-quote post, so I'm going to have to fake it. There is a multi-quote button but it doesn't do a thing for me. Don't reply to this. It's off topic here. I'll figure it out.

All quotes from OTPTT:

"I have also been guilty of eating frozen convenience food such as Lean Cuisine and the like..."

The danger with this stuff is it can be so damn cheap. I mistakenly wrote that at least vegetarianism would be cheap. Alex corrected me, and he is right. Hell, bell peppers can go for $1.00 each, these days. Pure junk food, though, can be ridiculous. One supermarket in Denver this week is selling Banquet TV dinners for 99 cents each. Thirty of these would be $29.70. Add pocket meals at 50 cents each (another special, this week) and you've got a months food for just under $45. I prepare almost all my own food, and have trouble staying under $200 a month. If things get tight, it may be pure junk food for lots of folks.

"Cooking vegetables causes a loss of vitamins and nutrients whereas eating them raw doesn't. When I don't eat raw veggies I try and steam them only. Cooking them in a pot of water is a last resort."

I'm willing to believe this, but is there any engineering data to back it up. It makes sense, and it's written everywhere, but has anyone actually done the lab tests.

"Raw celery, broccoli, carrots, cucumbers, onions, radishes, and tomatoes are my favorites. Will likely add to these as I find others I enjoy. Have some squash but haven't tried it raw yet."

Interesting. It would be a change for me, but I'd be willing to try it. Now, other than the obvious salad vegetables, (lettuce, tomatoes, cucumbers, olives, onions) the vegetables I eat are cooked, usually just by boiling water. I think I'll be giving raw vegetables a try, as well.

And just in case someone is having problems with salads, salads don't have to have lettuce. Tomatoes, cucumbers, olives, and onions, dressed with olive oil, lemon juice, and sea salt is a great salad--lettuce is not necessary.

Mike

[cillian]

Originally Posted by Mike in Denver

"Cooking vegetables causes a loss of vitamins and nutrients whereas eating them raw doesn't. When I don't eat raw veggies I try and steam them only. Cooking them in a pot of water is a last resort."

I'm willing to believe this, but is there any engineering data to back it up. It makes sense, and it's written everywhere, but has anyone actually done the lab tests.

Yes, and you can get this info from various nutrition sites. The vitamins most susceptible to loss will be B and C, since they are water soluble.

one example

Calories in Broccoli
Frozen, Chopped, Cooked, Boiled, Drained, Without Salt
1 cup
Vitamin C 58%

Calories in Broccoli
Raw
1 cup
Vitamin C 131%


http://caloriecount.about.com/

[Dan Allan]

Eating healthy is more expensive than eating junk. That's one reason there are so many fast-food joints in the inner city - muds don't care about healthy eating. Of course they are also abundant in mostly White shopping areas, but so are health food stores, organic groceries, etc. Whites are the only people that care about this kind of thing.

[OTPTT]

Originally Posted by Alex Linder

What you say tracks with what I've read, specifically the loss of nutrients through all preparation but raw and steaming.

One other benefit from eating raw vegetables is that it provides roughage and fiber that one wouldn't get with cooked vegetables. Cooked vegetables are soft and mushy especially if over cooked.

Cooking of vegetables in a pot of water causes the cellular membrane of the food to breakdown which is how the nutrients escape during the cooking process. Steam them whenever possible.

This doesn't have to be an all or nothing thing. I try and eat a plate of raw vegetables twice a day. You all may find them more palatable if you were to dip them in a ranch dressing or a dressing of your own making. I like raspberry vinaigrette and other oil and vinegar based solutions so you're only limited by your imagination. Of course a little salt helps too.

[OTPTT]

Try and avoid removing the skin of the vegetables if you can. Carrots are a good example as there is a lot of nutrition in the outer 'skin' of the carrot. I use a scotch pad and lightly scrub the outer portion of the carrot under running water. A scotch like pad will remove dirt and debris and leave the carrot intact. Some people use a peeler which removes the outer portion of the carrot along with the nutrients in that part of the carrot. I then snip each ends of the carrot before consumption.

It may appear that I'm anal about food preparation but this isn't the case.

I'm sure many of you have had a cucumber and onion salad. Clean and slice a cucumber and onion and put it in some type of container that you can seal. After preparing the vegetables pour vinegar up to about half an inch from top of the container and let it sit in your refrigerator for several hours so the vinegar can do it work on the veggies. You might also had a tomato to the mix if you wish.

[Alex Linder]

Note: I have no idea how to multi-quote

Me either. I just type in quote in brackets, quoted material, then /quote in brackets. Do that for whatever quoted material I want. If people use size/font changes, I just elimate that. My way always works, altho there is probably a more efficient way.

The danger with this stuff is it can be so damn cheap. I mistakenly wrote that at least vegetarianism would be cheap. Alex corrected me, and he is right. Hell, bell peppers can go for $1.00 each, these days. Pure junk food, though, can be ridiculous. One supermarket in Denver this week is selling Banquet TV dinners for 99 cents each. Thirty of these would be $29.70. Add pocket meals at 50 cents each (another special, this week) and you've got a months food for just under $45. I prepare almost all my own food, and have trouble staying under $200 a month. If things get tight, it may be pure junk food for lots of folks.

I wasn't really refuting you, just making an observation. My guess is all these foods pretty much even out in terms of costs. What I see now, as I said, is that apples, potatoes, tomatoes, peaches, etc., are often around a dollar apiece for a big one, and if you pay less per item, there's a reason. I don't think produce can be described as cheap today, and that certainly goes for farmer's markets too. FM remind me of garage sales - increasing number of people don't seem to get the point, which is a quick cheap exchange of money for items. Not for the seller to try to get rich. I guess it's a sign of the times.

"Cooking vegetables causes a loss of vitamins and nutrients whereas eating them raw doesn't. When I don't eat raw veggies I try and steam them only. Cooking them in a pot of water is a last resort."

I'm willing to believe this, but is there any engineering data to back it up. It makes sense, and it's written everywhere, but has anyone actually done the lab tests.

Don't know, but it is claimed across the board. What I have noticed is that I don't notice any bodily difference between eating raw and cooked vegetables. Same with multivitamins. I take these sometimes, but damned if I notice any effect from them.

"Raw celery, broccoli, carrots, cucumbers, onions, radishes, and tomatoes are my favorites. Will likely add to these as I find others I enjoy. Have some squash but haven't tried it raw yet."

Interesting. It would be a change for me, but I'd be willing to try it. Now, other than the obvious salad vegetables, (lettuce, tomatoes, cucumbers, olives, onions) the vegetables I eat are cooked, usually just by boiling water. I think I'll be giving raw vegetables a try, as well.

Could eat raw tomatoes all day long, but raw cauliflower and broccoli take real effort to eat. Don't know about onion, going to try it. These hard-core raw guys eventually find themselves doing nothing but eating out of their hands - eventually they don't even bother preparing vegan dishes, they just eat, say, a banana wrapped in lettuce (Klein). Klein says he eats two heads of lettuce a day. But there is a lot you can do - you can make raw broccoli recipes like this.


http://allthingsnice.typepad.com/tas...occoli-sa.html

I have not made it, but it sounds good.

And just in case someone is having problems with salads, salads don't have to have lettuce. Tomatoes, cucumbers, olives, and onions, dressed with olive oil, lemon juice, and sea salt is a great salad--lettuce is not necessary.

Sounds good, in fact I am going to try that this week.

[Alex Linder]

Originally Posted by OTPTT

One other benefit from eating raw vegetables is that it provides roughage and fiber that one wouldn't get with cooked vegetables. Cooked vegetables are soft and mushy especially if over cooked.

Cooking of vegetables in a pot of water causes the cellular membrane of the food to breakdown which is how the nutrients escape during the cooking process. Steam them whenever possible.

This doesn't have to be an all or nothing thing. I try and eat a plate of raw vegetables twice a day. You all may find them more palatable if you were to dip them in a ranch dressing or a dressing of your own making. I like raspberry vinaigrette and other oil and vinegar based solutions so you're only limited by your imagination. Of course a little salt helps too.

I know nothing about salad dressings but am learning. They go a long way to make that stuff more palatable, altho people like Atkins warn that a lot of the danger lies in processed condiments and sauces.

Do you eat meat daily, or just occasionally?

[OTPTT]

Originally Posted by Alex Linder

I know nothing about salad dressings but am learning. They go a long way to make that stuff more palatable, altho people like Atkins warn that a lot of the danger lies in processed condiments and sauces.

Do you eat meat daily, or just occasionally?

Probably best to make your own dressings. The fewer the ingredients the better and of those the least processed the better.

I eat meat when I can and when I have time to prepare it. I've got a freezer full of venison much of which General Lee fixed me up with during the Louisiana get together. I wouldn't say that I eat a lot of meat but I do eat it. I've only recently added raw vegetables to the diet.

[Steve B]

Originally Posted by OTPTT

I'm sure many of you have had a cucumber and onion salad. Clean and slice a cucumber and onion and put it in some type of container that you can seal. After preparing the vegetables pour vinegar up to about half an inch from top of the container and let it sit in your refrigerator for several hours so the vinegar can do it work on the veggies. You might also had a tomato to the mix if you wish.

Love those vinegar soaked veggies. Sometimes I'll add some kidney beans and thinly sliced carrots to the onion/cucumber/tomato mix then lightly salt and pepper.

It's not for everyone tho. Some people are overwhelmed by the vinegar taste but it's supposed to be good for you. Vinegar having health benefits.

[Alex Linder]

Originally Posted by OTPTT

Probably best to make your own dressings. The fewer the ingredients the better and of those the least processed the better.

I eat meat when I can and when I have time to prepare it. I've got a freezer full of venison much of which General Lee fixed me up with during the Louisiana get together. I wouldn't say that I eat a lot of meat but I do eat it. I've only recently added raw vegetables to the diet.

Yeah, I remember the deer. That can be good. The backstrap from my relative's deer was quite tasty. Some of the other parts can get gamey, but still palatable.

Atkins makes the point it's not the meat in a fast-food burger that's bad for you, the sauces and bread are worse. It can easily be the same with salad. I'm just looking for something simple enough to kill down the taste and harshness of some of the raw stuff.

[colleen]

I am a vegetarian. Have been one for over 20 years now. From birth, raised 2 boys vegan. The oldest has now added meat to his diet and the youngest added eggs but still no dairy. I have never found us to have any health related problems due to the diet we eat. I am of average height and well could probaly lose a few pounds. So contrary to the stereotype not all vegans are sickly about to keel over weaklings. My children are in the average percentile of weight for their heights.

I have found as the vegetarian lifestyle becomes more mainstream it is easier to plan a weekly menu that is full of vitamins and nutrients that one needs on any given day.

[COTW]

I had always just ate whatever I wanted like most people. As I got a little older my ass was dragging by the time I got home from work. 'It had to be my shitty diet' I thought and turned things around. I've found that a weightlifter's diet makes the most sense and have been strictly following one for a little over a year. I've more energy now than ever before and now have a sixpack for the first time ever at the age of 41!

As for the lettuce problem, have you tried different types of lettuce or even try spinach instead. Mike had a good suggestion of no lettuce, I tend to prepare so many veggies for my salad that I only have room for a few leaves of lettuce anyways. I could skip it too and it wouldn't bother me.

The Farmer's market here is much cheaper than the big chain grocery stores and I now buy all my produce from there. I buy my nuts and meat at Costco and now rarely go to the big chains at all and my food costs have been slashed drastically.

[Kievsky]

Alex,

Here's the advice I got from a friend on Crohn's:

The recommended health supplements for improving/ameliorating condions related to the autoimmune disease crohn's are:

OPC3, ORAC, probiotic digestive enzymes and Omega 3 fish oils.

You can probably find this on your own, if you want it. If you need help finding where to purchase it, send a PM as I have a direct source.

Kievsky

[Robert Bandanza]

The only thing I ever hear about when my cousin talks about his Crohn's is all the synthetic pills he takes. He also has seizures too which is another negative.

I cannot wait until the FDA is abolished and herbal remedies will be all there is for medicine. That's why I have been extensively posting in that marijuana discussion thread.

Sorry, to go a little off subject, but since Crohn's has been talked about I figured I'd chime in.

[Moose]

The theory of the human digestive system being adapted to the paleolithic diet seems to hold some water. Humans were hunter-gatherers for 2 million years, surviving on meat and wild edible plants before agriculture.

Man is a carnivore I say. I do think vegetarians/vegans might just have it half right though. Avoiding anything processed and eating only whole foods, meat and potatoes, couldn't do you wrong.

The modern paleolithic dieters say to cut out even milk and beer, which I just can't do. No sir.

Atkins diet seems to be in line with this concept, yet a more refined approach. Not so extreme and probably makes more sense to the modern person.