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Old September 27th, 2013 #41
Alex Linder
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You see how I took 2-3 paragraphs to go into at fifth-grader level the uncomplex set of ideas involved here? Well, I fancy I achieved that by the very elegant and economical stumblage of 'I music.' It satisifes me artistically. I believe others capable of subtle perception would pick up what I was putting down. I know it, in fact.
 
Old September 27th, 2013 #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post
That's my point. EVERYONE thinks music was best in his coming of age years, roughly 12-25. And they think that because THEY were better then. Which is what I tried to express concisely elegantly, without falling into poetry. So you stumble over what I said, but it's written to cause that. It appears to be a typo or a missed edit, but it's not, and you see that when you read it the second time. That's the idea anyway.


This may be the case, and I acknowledge the truth. But isn't it fair to say there are a lot of peer-recognised truths as to when music WAS in fact better? When you find comments on YouTube of young people arguing that originality isn't that proof that it isn't just about when we were at our best that there was specialness to that time that allowed for creative uniqueness? Can these not be judged by an identifiable originality in the composition, in the energy, in the lyricism and the unifying vibe? We can all agree that much of the 1960s was an undeniable energy, and those of my age (40 something) can look to punk and post-punk as an era [known as the blank generation to X generation] of highly emulated and admired genre? It is not a fuddy duddy thing to say that since Hip-Hop has become an unshakeable stalwart and the negrofication of music in general as a kind of lift music for background sounds in gymnasiums; the watering-down of punk (Blink182 and Green Day, no oldies anyway), that there is definitely a creative gap. And do you like that Divinylsí song you uploaded, Alex? Chrissie Amphlett is dead now, and she WAS a race traitor, but that was an energetic song and a good one. I like it anyway.
 
Old September 27th, 2013 #43
Jimmy Marr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post
I'm attempting to deliver an artistic delicacy to the 10%, perhaps, actually paying attention, capable of appreciating something interesting, new and possibly good.
Dang! I missed the cut again.

Perhaps it's because I'm in that other 10% (Apple users).

Half of everything we see and touch is prefixed with an "I", so the first thing I thought upon reading your opus was, "Damn, I didn't think they even had Imusic back then."
 
Old September 27th, 2013 #44
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Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post
True - but you're supposed to convey that by your word choices and order, not through italicization. That is, if you write it correctly, you don't need the italicization - it's naturally there. So that italics are basically only used where they are supposed to be, due to various rules requiring it.
I wasn't aware that there even were rules for italicization. Truly, you learn something every day.

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This is not my view, I'm giving you the conventional view. Personally, I think you're an excellent writer, and it doesn't bother me if you want italicize a lot of words, but truly, just fyi, what I'm telling you is the standard view. Not that anyone is aware of it these days.
Thanks for the compliment. Like the old "Just Say No" commercial "I learned it from watching YOU, Dad!

But I don't think I'm a writer at all, Alex. That isn't false modesty, which isn't my style, I'm just some guy posting his thoughts on the Internet who uses spell-check and pays attention. Over the years, I learned from being corrected, and from bearing witness to the public correction of others. Experience can be a mean bitch at times, but she's a great teacher.

To me, a writer is someone that can play with words & phrases to evoke a desired response in those who read their stuff.

If we're talking politically, I think Duke is a great writer. McDonald is as well. You're probably my favorite writer, because there are times when I read something you've written and it moves me. Sometimes to laughter, sometimes to anger, sometimes to reflection. That's big. And useful.

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I mean, I can read what you write, and where you have used italics is where I would put the emphasis anyway - which means you're doing it right, you're writing / communicating effectively, and the italics is, for your readers like me, redundant.
At this point, it has taken on some aspects of an affectation for me. More harmless than a goofy hat, anyway. I put the emphasis on the words I would were I speaking them. Which is what you're saying, I think.

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Really, writing is just a form of music using words, and if you aren't tone deaf, you can pick up the feel and flow, and understand the patter and the pattern, feel it in your blood. You can tell how the writer is thinking, and where his emphasis falls. It truly is musical. Read Mencken - that's writing at its most delightful, the sound and the sense in perfect harmony.
I'm a musician, so I understand exactly what you mean about flow.
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Old September 27th, 2013 #45
M.N. Dalvez
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I wasn't aware that there even were rules for italicization.
I don't think it is a rule; it's more about the concept of elegance. Using italicisation, parentheses, semi-colons, and so on excessively just isn't elegant, man.

A good writer can write clearly, concisely, and correctly.

But a great writer can do what a good writer does, and make it look like it's nothing at all. Did you ever watch a great athlete at work, a great dancer, a great musician? It looks like what they are doing is being done with no effort at all, but intellectually, you know their seemingly-effortless performance is the result of a lifetime spent honing their skills to a needle-point. Their performance, what they do, is elegant.

Also, as you alluded to, a good writer can influence a person's thoughts - but a great writer can influence a person's, or many people's, emotions. With words.
 
Old September 27th, 2013 #46
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Originally Posted by Donnie in Ohio View Post
Dude, music was better 40 years ago.
Strange comment.

Pitcavage would only have been 7 years old at that time.
 
Old September 27th, 2013 #47
Donnie in Ohio
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Originally Posted by M.N. Dalvez View Post
I don't think it is a rule; it's more about the concept of elegance. Using italicisation, parentheses, semi-colons, and so on excessively just isn't elegant, man.
Yeah, I use 'man' a lot, too. 'Dude' as well. It's a fair cop. I have caught grief over it, but I grew up in the 1970s, man. It's hard-wired.

Question: When should one use " " vs. ' '?
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Old September 27th, 2013 #48
Leonard Rouse
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Originally Posted by Donnie in Ohio View Post
Yeah, I use 'man' a lot, too. 'Dude' as well. It's a fair cop. I have caught grief over it, but I grew up in the 1970s, man. It's hard-wired.
Dude. . . seriously. No, really. Dude.
 
Old September 27th, 2013 #49
M.N. Dalvez
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" " are quotation marks.

' ' can be used to indicate insincerity or sarcasm. Or for a quote within a quote.

I think there's no real hard-and-fast rule about that, though.
 
Old September 27th, 2013 #50
Randal Goode
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donnie in Ohio View Post
Question: When should one use " " vs. ' '?
The '...' is generally used, when needed, within "..."

Quote within a quote.

Lenny looked across the table and said, "So what did he say? I tell you guys what he says. That dumbfuck Bruce told me in his squeaky-ass voice, 'Lenny, please, just one more week and I'll pay you. One more week is all I ask.' That's what that motherfucker had the nerve to tell me! Can you believe that?"
 
Old September 27th, 2013 #51
Jimmy Marr
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Originally Posted by Randal Goode View Post
The '...' is generally used, when needed, within "..."

Quote within a quote.

Lenny looked across the table and said, "So what did he say? I tell you guys what he says. That dumbfuck Bruce told me in his squeaky-ass voice, 'Lenny, please, just one more week and I'll pay you. One more week is all I ask.' That's what that motherfucker had the nerve to tell me! Can you believe that?"
Tough talk from a guy who still owes me $20.
 
Old September 28th, 2013 #52
Donnie in Ohio
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Marr View Post
Strange comment.

Pitcavage would only have been 7 years old at that time.
Probably already shopping in the "husky" section.
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Old September 28th, 2013 #53
Donnie in Ohio
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Originally Posted by Bev View Post
Seeing as he's all about war, battle and victory, what do you think he'd do?
I know what he wouldn't do. Put lemonade in his mead. Still looking for Trooper, btw.
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Old September 28th, 2013 #54
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Old September 28th, 2013 #55
Bev
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Originally Posted by Donnie in Ohio View Post
I know what he wouldn't do. Put lemonade in his mead.
No god is perfect.

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Still looking for Trooper, btw.
OH Cavalier Ohio 513.247.9222

Although it does say:

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Below is a list of distributors that have ordered Trooper. While the beer won’t arrive for a couple of weeks, it would be a good idea to call them to find a store near you. Please note that these businesses cannot, in most cases, sell directly to the public. If you don’t live in a state serviced by a distributor, fear not! We will be adding distributors and we will do our best to get you the Trooper you want. We’ve also added a couple of mail-order sources that are able to sell you beer for delivery.
So presumably the Ohio distributor would be able to tell you what shops have ordered/are selling it.


http://beerpulse.com/2013/07/iron-ma...this-week-993/
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Old September 28th, 2013 #56
M.N. Dalvez
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I'd like to think he only drank mead because nothing better was available at the time. Awful stuff, mead.
 
Old September 28th, 2013 #57
Jimmy Marr
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Awful stuff, mead.
Meadiocre at best.
 
Old September 28th, 2013 #58
jaekel
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Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post
It could.

Look, this line isn't aimed at average people. I'm not trying to serve fine Italian food to people living in Amarillo, Texas. I'm attempting to deliver an artistic delicacy to the 10%, perhaps, actually paying attention, capable of appreciating something interesting, new and possibly good.
So you're looking for a play on words, like country music does: 'I meant every word he said'
You could put a British spin on it: me think me music was better
 
Old September 28th, 2013 #59
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Like every other fortysomething, I feel I music was better 20 years ago
Having considered it for a couple of days, I understand the meaning you're trying to put across but the more I think about it, the more I dislike "was".

"I" and "music" are two different topics so I think if I'd been going for that linguistic effect, I might have used were. Either that or I'd transpose I and music to read:

Like every other fortysomething, I feel music I was better 20 years ago

so the reader more easily picks up on: (bracketed italics unspoken)

Like every other fortysomething, I feel music (no, screw that, I'm actually talking about ME) I was better 20 years ago.

But really, you're creating a whole new grammatical rule so it's down to you to decide what's correct and what isn't.
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Old September 30th, 2013 #60
Melvina Gordon
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Originally Posted by Donnie in Ohio View Post
I'm not being flippant when I say I've learned more about the English language heer than I ever did in school. I used to capitalize the seasons until someone gently.... almost tenderly, pointed out the error.

Which is the VNN way after all.
Capitalizing the seasons wasn't wrong, just antique and there's nothing wrong with that. The idea that our comprehension has to be based on context of a whole sentence is a modern one. A generation or two ago, we knew what the writer intended by looking at the word he used and how it was spellt. (Americans say 'spelled' now but that can also mean that somebody put a spell on it, or the word took a break to go out and have a smoke!) Now add in over 40 years of deliberate 'dumbing-down' and you'll find yourself blinking over lots of writing, much of it professional too.

Yes, Alex Linder. You are very profound.
 
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