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Old June 21st, 2009 #1
Alex Linder
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Default Neanderthals

One of science's most puzzling mysteries - the disappearance of the Neanderthals - may have been solved. Modern humans ate them, says a leading fossil expert.
Old June 22nd, 2009 #2
N.B. Forrest
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How the hell do they know that the unfortunate Neanderthal's own people didn't make a post-mortem or sacrificial jowl sammich?

Can we eat the kikes now?
Old July 18th, 2009 #3
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I'm always amused when scientists find one extreme example of something then present it as the norm.
Old July 18th, 2009 #4
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Rozzi believes the jawbone provides crucial evidence that humans attacked Neanderthals, and sometimes killed them, bringing back their bodies to caves to eat or to use their skulls or teeth as trophies. "For years, people have tried to hide away from the evidence of cannibalism, but I think we have to accept it took place," he added.
If, as they say, Neanderthals were a different species from us, how can eating them be considered cannibalism?
Just another gratuitous slam against "caveman" Whites curtesy of the Frankfurt school.
Worse than a million megaHitlers all smushed together.
Old July 18th, 2009 #5
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There is a new theory on why the Neanderthals died out. Infectious diseases which seem a lot more plausible to me than cannibalism, changing climate, competition from modern humans or absorption.

Illness brought down early human rival: scientist
Tuesday, 07 July 2009 09:51 KM News

Infectious disease carried by Homo sapiens was responsible for the demise of the Neanderthal, according to a new theory

Scientists seeking to uncover the mystery of what happened to the Neanderthals should look to the modus operandi of another great die-off 30,000 years later, argues a Danish expert in an article submitted to the Journal of Archaeological Science.

In the article, professor emeritus Bent Sørensen of the University of Roskilde wrote that disease carried by Homo sapiens migrating out of Africa was responsible for the gradual extinction of our prehistoric cousins in the same way that European illnesses ravaged Native American populations in the sixteenth century.

‘Modern humans brought illnesses they could survive themselves, but for Neanderthals they were deadly,’ Sørensen said.

Sørensen’s article challenges the leading theories about why Neanderthals disappeared from Europe 30,000 years ago.

Those theories suggest that the stockier Neanderthals were unable to adapt to a changing climate or that they were killed off as humans encroached on their territory. But according to Sørensen, skeletal remains show no conclusive evidence that Neanderthals had been killed as a result of violence caused by humans.

He hopes efforts currently underway to map the DNA from the remains of a 38,000 year-old Neanderthal found in Croatia can uncover evidence to support his theory.

Similar methods, he said, have been used to identify tuberculosis in 5,000 year-old remains discovered in Egypt.
Old January 26th, 2010 #6
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Talking neanderthal and man

There's so many theories of why Neanderthal suddenly vanished from the fossil record about 24,000 years ago, that they couldn't adapt, disease, extermination by cro-magnon, etc.

But there is another intriguing possibility, neanderthal still lives us whites.

I've always been fascinated by prehistoric cave paintings, especially those found in Europe (painted by our ancestors), they are far more sophisticated and numerous than similar works found anywhere else in the world ...almost like comparing a Michelangelo with a child's crayon drawing.

And they are also older, again by far.

Here's a few samples of cave art from Chauvet Cave, Vallon Pont-d'Arc France discovered in 1994. You are looking at art that is 30,000-32,000 years old according to radiocarbon dating, the oldest artwork produced by man found to date anywhere in the world.

These ancient European artists used methods not seen anywhere else, like scraping the walls flat and clean of detritus before working on them, but the real kicker is when you view them by torchlight (the way they were meant to be viewed) suddenly hits you that they used techniques in creating these works like perspective, shading etc. that supposedly weren't 'invented' until the Renaissance era.

This cave was painted during a time when cro-magnon and neanderthal cohabited Europe. Europe (from Ireland to the Urals), the Middle East, North Africa and India are where most all traces of ancient Neanderthal are found, curiously our extinct human cousin's turf corresponds exactly with the traditional realm of the Caucasian race.

Both human species had co-existed uneasily for two hundred thousand years, using similar tools and technologies and living somewhat similar lifestyles and then all of a sudden about 35,000 years ago there is this creative explosion in homo sapiens that noone really understands, and 10,000 years later neanderthal disappears from the planet.

Might some genetic change have made possible the interbreeding of the two, and might the seemingly unlimited creative potential of this hybrid (us) have been made possible from the union of two related forms of man who up until that time the record shows had shown hardly any of the characteristic works of modern humans?

The Way We Are by Stan Gooch

In April 1999 Professor Trinkaus of Washington University announced that fossil finds in Portugal some 25,000 years old proved conclusively that Neanderthal man and Cro-Magnon man had interbred. That of course had long been obvious to anyone with eyes in his head—‘you can observe Neanderthal at any public gathering’ as Oswald Spengler remarked.

But now it is official. What the scientific establishment had for so long implacably denied is true—we are a hybrid species. We are not simply the descendant of Cro-Magnon man.

But now too we have to accept and face the massive consequences of this situation. Or to put matters more positively, we now have the answers to the central and hitherto inexplicable puzzles of the human condition. We can now for instance understand the nature and source of the unending conflicts which tear human communities apart from Northern Ireland to Bosnia to Indonesia to Nigeria. We can now also understand why we have a universal political structure of diametrically opposed left wing versus right wing views.

But not even that is all.

In 1994 Jean-Marie Chauvet, a pot-holer, stumbled upon the magnificent cave paintings of what is now known as the Chauvet grotto. These 33,000 year old paintings are in every way the equal of the work of the great artists of our present day—Da Vinci, Picasso, Michael Angelo. Robin McKie in his book Ape Man emphasises that Neanderthals had shown no ability to produce art of this quality—but adds, crucially: ‘The problem is that neither had Cro-Magnon.’ Art critic John Berger writes: ‘Art did not begin clumsily or gradually—there was grace from the start.’ So the astonishing Chauvet achievement bursts on us out of the blue from nowhere.

And this remarkable and hitherto inexplicable artistic situation is equally duplicated on all fronts—not merely the artistic. (The situation is in fact almost enough to make one believe in von Däniken.) As Robin McKie emphasises, thus far both Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon had used the same kind of tools in the same kinds of ways for almost two hundred thousand years.

But then from around 35,000 BP there is a sudden explosion in the complexity and style and use of tools throughout the whole world human community—as also of all aspects of culture. Where, asks McKie, did the modern world suddenly spring from and why? He then states, frankly, that he and the scientific community have no explanations to offer.

Yet the answer is in fact not far to seek.

When animal and plant breeders cross widely divergent species of plants and animals a simple miracle occurs. Offspring are produced which have qualities and characteristics possessed by neither parent. This outcome is known as ‘hybrid vigour’. It is precisely what animal and plant breeding is all about.

So is it not then abundantly clear that the crossing of Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon—who had of course evolved as two totally separate species over many millions of years—suddenly, overnight, produced ourselves and our remarkable abilities?

A sobering thought in passing is this. It is virtually certain that the miraculous (or rather standard!) biological event that produced ourselves occurred simply and solely as the by-product of the systematic slaughter and extinction of Neanderthal by Cro-Magnon—and in the process the rape and enslavement of Neanderthal woman.

Yet there is much more still.

When widely divergent species of animal are crossed and subsequently observed in the laboratory the offspring are frequently found to have inherited conflicting sets of instincts, evolved in their parents’ separate evolutionary pasts.

As an actual instance we have the offspring of the cross between a Peach-Faced Lovebird and a Fischer’s Lovebird. The Peach-Faced Lovebird when building its nest carries leaves and strips of bark tucked into its rump feathers. The Fischer’s Lovebird however transports these items in its beak. The hybrid cross is found to possess both sets of instinctive instructions. So the unfortunate offspring tears itself a strip of bark. The Peach-Faced instinct now tells the bird to insert this into its rump feathers, which the youngster does.

But at this point the Fischer’s instinct intervenes and instructs the bird not to let go of the material because it has not yet arrived at the nest site. So the youngster resumes the ready-to-fly position with the bark still in its mouth. But then the Peach-Faced instinct, noting the bark in the mouth, once again intervenes and reminds the bird to place the bark in its rump feathers. This the youngster again attempts to do. But now once more the Fischer’s instinct reminds the bird that it is not yet at the nest site—so the ready-to-fly position is again resumed with the bark still in the youngster’s beak . . .

The see-saw process continues on and on and on—with the young bird exhibiting ever greater confusion and distress.

That is the kind of psychological impasse which is often created when widely divergent animal species are crossed. It is also what occurred when Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon interbred. Now we can understand why our culture has so many established and enduring metaphors, and so many enduring and central storylines, attesting to our ‘double life’: the divided self, the two souls within one breast, the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing, Cain and Abel, Jekyll and Hyde, Faust. This too is why, for example, we long for true, everlasting love on the one hand—yet hanker for promiscuity and one-night stands on the other,

How could two such diametrically opposed instinctive drives exist side-by-side in terms of any normal evolutionary scenario, within any one single species? Oh, but surely we are not governed by instinct to that extent? Oh, but surely we are. The greater part of our social life and culture is centrally governed by ‘fossil behaviours' evolved by our ancestors in the distant past. Desmond Morris in particular has written several books on this subject.

Very briefly here, my own proposals in respect of Neanderthal life (based on a study of these matters over some forty years) are that Neanderthal society was matriarchal and completely promiscuous, led by women and driven by sex—exactly as is the case with the recently discovered bonobos pygmy chimpanzees of Africa. Life was communal (we can interject the word 'commune-ism' here).

Neanderthal evolved originally in bush or jungle conditions, hence his shortness (classic Neanderthal males in particular were a mere average 5' 4'' in height) and was also near-sighted as appropriate to this environment. And importantly, predominantly left-handed (for reasons too complex to summarise here).

Cro-Magnon certainly evolved on the open plains, hence his tallness. (Average height of Cro-Magnon males was originally calculated to be 6' 0''—though the more accepted figure today is 5' 10''.) He developed pair-bonding and lived with one partner for life, on a defined small piece of territory adjacent with other similar pairs. (Thus the gibbon communities of today are actually the perfect model for suburbia.) He was appropriately long-sighted, and right-handed.

The above statements are to an extent a matter for debate. What follows is not—and is readily testable in respect of the items listed. Some of these items have in fact already been formally investigated and confirmed. My own research supports the remainder. It is quite clear that the left wing and the Labour Party represent our Neanderthal side, while the right wing and the Conservative Party represent our Cro-Magnon ancestry. And so if Labour MPs and members (I stress members) of the Labour Party were compared with Conservative MPs and members of the Conservative Party then the former would show:

A greater incidence of the big toe being shorter than the second toe. (All Neanderthal fossil feet and fossil footprints have the big toe shorter than the second toe. All Cro-Magnon fossil feet and fossil footprints show the big toe longer than the second toe.)

Greater incidence of the so-called simian line in the palm of the hand. (The simian line is a single division across the centre of the palm, which all apes have but most humans do not. The norm for humans is two lines—the so-called head and heart lines.)

A larger cerebellum.
Greater incidence of the pyknic body type and a lower incidence of the athletic body type.
A higher incidence of left-handedness.
A lower incidence of male pattern baldness.
Greater incidence of prominent eyebrows (including eyebrows which meet in the middle) and brow ridges.
A greater number of offspring (i.e. higher fertility).
Higher incidence of clinical neurosis and a lower incidence of clinical psychosis.
Higher incidence of short-sightedness and a lower incidence of long-sightedness.
Better night vision.
Greater susceptibility to hypnosis.
Greater proportion of sleeping time spent in dreaming time.
Higher incidence of 'drop-out' behaviours (sleeping rough, alcoholism, unemployment, drug addiction, etc.).
Shorter average height.
Lower average IQ.

These same differences would also be shown when members of religious organisations were compared with members of scientific institutions; when southern Europeans were compared with northern Europeans; when eastern Europeans were compared with western Europeans; when Welsh were compared with English; when Northern Ireland Catholics were compared with Northern Ireland Protestants; when members of the Untouchable caste were compared with members of the Brahmin caste; when short individuals were compared with tall individuals.

As said, a number of these intercorrelations have already been confirmed by large-scale formal surveys. Thus left-handed men show far less baldness than right-handed men. Drop-outs sleeping rough on American streets also show far less baldness. Jews in every European country show more short-sightedness than non-Jews. Northern Europeans are taller than southern Europeans—and so on. How does (or could) orthodoxy account for these findings? Orthodoxy has no answers.

As already stated, conflict within human societies (as opposed to conflict between nations purely over disputed territory) can be very well understood in terms of our dual human ancestry—and cannot in fact be genuinely understood in any other. From Northern Ireland to Nigeria, though the labels given to the conflicts concerned differ, what we see on closer inspection is one group defending and seeking to impose a more Neanderthal life-style versus another defending and seeking to impose a more Cro-Magnon life-style.

The French Revolution, the Russian Revolution and the Taleban movement were/are Neanderthal driven. The Nazi movement, the Ku Klux Klan and Serbian ethnic cleansing were/are Cro-Magnon driven.

Look at John Hume standing next to David Trimble in Northern Ireland and you will see ‘Neanderthal’ standing next to ‘Cro-Magnon’. The quotation marks are of course crucial. If David Trimble were purely Cro-Magnon he would not be short-sighted. If John Hume were purely Neanderthal he would not be as tall as David Trimble.

We are all simultaneously and permanently both.

That situation, as we have briefly seen, is at once our greatest blessing—and our greatest curse.

Stan Gooch 2000

Updated Neanderthal physical reconstructions:

Another article on the possibility of Cro-Magnon and Neanderthal interbreeding:

Evidence of inter-species violence?

Just a theory, but it seems more plausible than 'space aliens' altering the human genome to create an intelligent being from a semi-animal.

The author of the article I quoted Stan Gooch is an odd individual, he's also reviled by leftists for assigning 'inferior' (Neanderthal) qualities to them and curiously, jews.

One more thing to ponder.

Last edited by T.Garrett; January 26th, 2010 at 08:12 AM. Reason: ooops, was half asleep when I posted this
Old January 29th, 2010 #7
Farwell Kirk
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Since Neanderthals lived in what is now Germany I am surprised they have not yet been blamed for the rise of Hitler.
Old March 11th, 2010 #8
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I wached some new evidence about mysterious disappearance of the Neanderthals ...

Humans are geneticly compatibile with Neandrethals (they can produce offsprings), it is like two kinds of dogs: bernandine and pitbull.

That new theory say:

Humans killed all Neandrethals.

It is realy simple, and from my point of view, it can be right theory, Neandrethals was living in small families (50 people), and Humans live in big tribes (1 000 people)..war between those two races ended with Humans victory and full extermination of Neandrethals. Logical, bigger group is victoruios and also brutal exterminators.

BTW. Neandrethal was stronger and agile than Human, and also better use of tools.

Proff of this theory was founded in Neandrethals caves, last cave was on Giblatar (last standing colony). Mother Venus signs founded across Europe, what can suggested that Humans was have same religion and some kind of tribal alliance (first nation) in that time. No mixing between those two races say that Neandrethals was demons to Humans, not only enemy, but religious, evel demons, "things" which must be exterminated.

That war was lasted for thousands years. Very long war....

Neandrethals from Krapina:

Tomislav (Tom) Sunic is a Croatian author, former diplomat, and political theorist of the New Right.

In name of Christ.......fight against communist
Old May 6th, 2010 #9
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Talking "Subtle' behavoral differences, eh?

Neanderthal genes 'survive in us'

By Paul Rincon
Science reporter, BBC News

Many people alive today possess some Neanderthal ancestry, according to a landmark scientific study.

The finding has surprised many experts, as previous genetic evidence suggested the Neanderthals made little or no contribution to our inheritance.

The result comes from analysis of the Neanderthal genome - the "instruction manual" describing how these ancient humans were put together.

The genomes of 1% to 4% of people in Eurasia come from Neanderthals.

But the study confirms living humans overwhelmingly trace their ancestry to a small population of Africans who later spread out across the world.

The most widely-accepted theory of modern human origins - known as Out of Africa - holds that the ancestors of living humans (Homo sapiens) originated in Africa some 200,000 years ago.

A relatively small group of people then left the continent to populate the rest of the world between 50,000 and 60,000 years ago.

While the Neanderthal genetic contribution - found in people from Europe, Asia and Oceania - appears to be small, this figure is higher than previous genetic analyses have suggested.

"They are not totally extinct. In some of us they live on, a little bit," said Professor Svante Paabo, from the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig, Germany.

Professor Chris Stringer, research leader in human origins at London's Natural History Museum, is one of the architects of the Out of Africa theory. He told BBC News: "In some ways [the study] confirms what we already knew, in that the Neanderthals look like a separate line.

"But, of course, the really surprising thing for many of us is the implication that there has been some interbreeding between Neanderthals and modern humans in the past."

John Hawks, assistant professor of anthropology at the University of Wisconsin-Madison in the US, told BBC News: "They're us. We're them.

"It seemed like it was likely to be possible, but I am surprised by the amount. I really was not expecting it to be as high as 4%," he said of the genetic contribution from Neanderthals.

The sequencing of the Neanderthal genome is a landmark scientific achievement, the product of a four-year-long effort led from Germany's Max Planck Institute but involving many other universities around the world.

The project makes use of efficient "high-throughput" technology which allows many genetic sequences to be processed at the same time.

The draft Neanderthal sequence contains DNA extracted from the bones of three different Neanderthals found at Vindija Cave in Croatia.

Retrieving good quality genetic material from remains tens of thousands of years old presented many hurdles which had to be overcome.

The samples almost always contained only a small amount of Neanderthal DNA amid vast quantities of DNA from bacteria and fungi that colonised the remains after death.

The Neanderthal DNA itself had broken down into very short segments and had changed chemically. Luckily, the chemical changes were of a regular nature, allowing the researchers to write software that corrected for them.

Writing in Science journal, the researchers describe how they compared this draft sequence with the genomes of modern people from around the globe.

"The comparison of these two genetic sequences enables us to find out where our genome differs from that of our closest relative," said Professor Paabo.

The results show that the genomes of non-Africans (from Europe, China and New Guinea) are closer to the Neanderthal sequence than are those from Africa.

The most likely explanation, say the researchers, is that there was limited mating, or "gene flow", between Neanderthals and the ancestors of present-day Eurasians.

This must have taken place just as people were leaving Africa, while they were still part of one pioneering population. This mixing could have taken place either in North Africa, the Levant or the Arabian Peninsula, say the researchers.

The Out of Africa theory contends that modern humans replaced local "archaic" populations like the Neanderthals.

But there are several variations on this idea. The most conservative model proposes that this replacement took place with no interbreeding between modern humans and Neanderthals.

Unique features

Another version allows for a degree of assimilation, or absorption, of other human types into the Homo sapiens gene pool.

The latest research strongly supports the Out of Africa theory, but it falsifies the most conservative version of events.

The team also identified more than 70 gene changes that were unique to modern humans. These genes are implicated in physiology, the development of the brain, skin and bone.

The researchers also looked for signs of "selective sweeps" - strong natural selection acting to boost traits in modern humans. They found 212 regions where positive selection may have been taking place.

The scientists are interested in discovering genes that distinguish modern humans from Neanderthals because they may have given our evolutionary line certain advantages over the course of evolution.

The most obvious differences were in physique: the muscular, stocky frames of Neanderthals contrast sharply with those of our ancestors. But it is likely there were also more subtle differences, in behaviour, for example.

Dr Hawks commented that the amount of Neanderthal DNA in our genomes seemed high: "What it means is that any traits [Neanderthals] had that might have been useful in later populations should still be here.

"So when we see that their anatomies are gone, this isn't just chance. Those things that made the Neanderthals apparent to us as a population - those things didn't work. They're gone because they didn't work in the context of our population."

Researchers had previously thought Europe was the region where Neanderthals and modern humans were most likely to have exchanged genes. The two human types overlapped here for some 10,000 years.

The authors of the paper in Science do not rule out some interbreeding in Europe, but say it was not possible to detect this with present scientific methods.

Last edited by T.Garrett; May 6th, 2010 at 04:43 PM.
Old May 6th, 2010 #10
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Originally Posted by T.Garrett View Post
Is that a cross in the picture above?
Old May 6th, 2010 #11
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Signs of Neanderthals Mating With Humans

The Vindija cave in Croatia where three small Neanderthal bones were found.

Published: May 6, 2010

Neanderthals mated with some modern humans after all and left their imprint in the human genome, a team of biologists has reported in the first detailed analysis of the Neanderthal genetic sequence.

The biologists, led by Svante Paabo of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig, Germany, have been slowly reconstructing the genome of Neanderthals, the stocky hunters that dominated Europe until 30,000 years ago, by extracting the fragments of DNA that still exist in their fossil bones. Just last year, when the biologists first announced that they had decoded the Neanderthal genome, they reported no significant evidence of interbreeding.

Scientists say they have recovered 60 percent of the genome so far and hope to complete it. By comparing that genome with those of various present day humans, the team concluded that about 1 percent to 4 percent of the genome of non-Africans today is derived from Neanderthals. But the Neanderthal DNA does not seem to have played a great role in human evolution, they said.

Experts believe that the Neanderthal genome sequence will be of extraordinary importance in understanding human evolutionary history since the two species split some 600,000 years ago.

So far, the team has identified only about 100 genes — surprisingly few — that have contributed to the evolution of modern humans since the split. The nature of the genes in humans that differ from those of Neanderthals is of particular interest because they bear on what it means to be human, or at least not Neanderthal. Some of the genes seem to be involved in cognitive function and others in bone structure.

“Seven years ago, I really thought that it would remain impossible in my lifetime to sequence the whole Neanderthal genome,” Dr. Paabo said at a news conference. But the Leipzig team’s second conclusion, that there was probably interbreeding between Neanderthals and modern humans before Europeans and Asians split, is being greeted with reserve by some archaeologists.

A degree of interbreeding between modern humans and Neanderthals in Europe would not be greatly surprising given that the two species overlapped there for some 15,000 years, from 44,000 years ago when modern humans first entered Europe to 30,000 years ago when the last Neanderthals fell extinct. Archaeologists have been debating for years whether the fossil record shows evidence of individuals with mixed features.

But the new analysis, which is based solely on genetics and elaborate statistical calculations, is more difficult to match with the archaeological record. The Leipzig scientists assert that the interbreeding they detect did not occur in Europe but in the Middle East and at a much earlier period, some 100,000 to 60,000 years ago, before the modern human populations of Europe and East Asia had split. There is much less archaeological evidence for an overlap between modern humans and Neanderthals at this time and place.

Dr. Paabo has pioneered the extraction and analysis of ancient DNA from fossil bones, overcoming a host of daunting obstacles over the last 13 years in his sustained pursuit of the Neanderthal genome. Perhaps the most serious is that most Neanderthal bones are extensively contaminated with modern human DNA, which is highly similar to Neanderthal DNA. The DNA he has analyzed comes from three small bones from the Vindija cave in Croatia. They are fragments of long bones deliberately crushed, perhaps as part of a cannibal feast, and seem too uninteresting to have invited much handling.

“This is a fabulous achievement,” said Ian Tattersall, a paleontologist at the American Museum of Natural History in New York, referring to the draft Neanderthal genome that Dr. Paabo’s team describes in Thursday’s issue of Science.

But he and other archaeologists questioned some of the interpretations put forward by Dr. Paabo and his chief colleagues, Richard E. Green of the Leipzig institute, and David Reich of Harvard Medical School. Geneticists have been making increasingly valuable contributions to human prehistory, but their work depends heavily on complex mathematical statistics that make their arguments hard to follow. And the statistical insights, however informative, do not have the solidity of an archaeological fact.

“This is probably not the authors’ last word, and they are obviously groping to explain what they have found,” Dr. Tattersall said.

Richard Klein, a paleontologist at Stanford, said the authors’ theory of an early interbreeding episode did not seem to have taken full account of the archaeological background. “They are basically saying, ‘Here are our data, you have to accept it.’ But the little part I can judge seems to me to be problematic, so I have to worry about the rest,” he said.

In an earlier report on the Neanderthal genome, the reported DNA sequences were found by other geneticists to be extensively contaminated with human DNA. Dr. Paabo’s group has taken extra precautions but it remains to be seen how successful they have been, Dr. Klein said, especially as another group at the Leipzig institute, presumably using the same methods, has obtained results that Dr. Paabo said he could not confirm.

Dr. Paabo said that episode of human-Neanderthal breeding implied by Dr. Reich’s statistics most plausibly occurred “in the Middle East where the first modern humans appear before 100,000 years ago and there were Neanderthals until 60,000 years ago.” According to Dr. Klein, people in Africa expanded their range and reached just Israel during a warm period some 120,000 years ago. They retreated during a cold period some 80,000 years ago and were replaced by Neanderthals. It is not clear whether or not they overlapped with Neanderthals, Dr. Klein said.

These humans, in any case, were not fully modern and they did not expand from Africa, an episode that occurred some 30,000 years later. If there was any interbreeding, the flow of genes should have been both ways, Dr. Klein said, but Dr. Paabo’s group sees evidence for gene flow only from Neanderthals to modern humans.

The Leipzig group’s interbreeding theory would undercut the present belief that all human populations today draw from the same gene pool that existed a mere 50,000 years ago. “What we falsify here is the strong Out-of-Africa hypothesis that everyone comes from the same population,” Dr. Paabo said.

In his and Dr. Reich’s view, Neanderthals interbred only with non-Africans, the people who left Africa, which would mean that non-Africans drew from a second gene pool not available to Africans. Dr. Reich said that the known percentage difference in DNA units between African and non-African genomes was not changed by his proposal that some of the non-African DNA is from Neanderthals.
Old May 6th, 2010 #12
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Anthropologist John Hawks on the new information about Neanderthals and humans:
Old May 6th, 2010 #13
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DNA proves we had sex with Neanderthals
May, 06 2010

MOST of us have a Neanderthal side thanks to some wayward behaviour by our distant ancestors, it was suggested today.

Experts are now convinced that early modern humans and Neanderthals interbred between 50,000 and 100,000 years ago.

Inter-human relations occurred as the first pioneering bands of Homo sapiens ventured out of Africa, scientists believe.

When they reached the Middle East they ran into groups of Neanderthals who preceded them. The rest, as they say, is history.

As a result, between 1 per cent and 4per cent of the DNA of non-African people alive today is Neanderthal, according to the research.

The discovery emerged from the first attempt to map the complete Neanderthal genetic code, or genome. It more or less settles a long-standing academic debate over interbreeding between separate branches of the human family tree.

Evidence in the past has pointed both ways, for and against modern humans and Neanderthals mixing their genes.

Technically the Neanderthals, Homo neanderthalensis, were a human sub-species which parted evolutionary company from our direct ancestors between 270,000 and 440,000 years ago.

Around 400,000 years ago early Neanderthals stepped out of their African cradle, where Homo sapiens was still evolving, and headed for Europe and Asia.

At least 300,000 years later early modern humans followed the Neanderthals out of Africa. The two populations co-existed in Europe and Asia until the Neanderthals vanished forever around 30,000 years ago - probably driven into extinction by the smarter and more competitive modern humans.

Previous genetic evidence has cast doubt on the likelihood of Homo sapiens and Neanderthals interbreeding. But this was based on analysis of a limited form of DNA locked in the mitochondria, bean-shaped energy-generating bodies in cells.

The new genome sequence published today in the journal Science covers around 60 per cent of the whole Neanderthal genetic code, as imprinted in the chromosomes of cell nuclei.

To highlight any differences, scientists compared the Neanderthal genome to those of present-day humans from southern and west Africa, China, Papua New Guinea and France.

They were surprised to find that Neanderthals were more closely related to modern humans from outside Africa than to Africans.

Even more mysteriously, the relationship extended to people from eastern Asia and the western Pacific - even though no Neanderthal remains have been found outside Europe and western Asia.

The most likely explanation is that Neanderthals and Homo sapiens interbred before early modern humans struck out east, taking traces of Neanderthal with them in their genes.

Professor Svante Paabo, director of evolutionary genetics at the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig, Germany, who led the international project, said: "Since we see this pattern in all people outside Africa, not just the region where Neanderthals existed, we speculate that this happened in some population of modern humans that then became the ancestors of all present-day non-Africans.

"The most plausible region is in the Middle East, where the first modern humans appeared before 100,000 years ago and where there were Neanderthals until at least 60,000 years ago.

"Modern humans that came out of Africa to colonise the rest of the world had to pass through that region."

He added: "Those of us who live outside Africa carry a little Neanderthal DNA in us."

The scientists calculated that Neanderthal DNA makes up between 1 per cent and 4 per cent of modern non-African genomes.

Such a faint genetic signature suggests only a small amount of interbreeding.

When the first modern humans left Africa they did so in groups numbering just tens to hundreds of individuals. But even a few instances of interbreeding among such a small population would have had a global impact as their numbers expanded.

Co-author Dr Richard Green, from the University of California at Santa Cruz, said: "How these peoples would have interacted culturally is not something we can speculate on in any meaningful way. But knowing there was gene flow is important and it is fascinating to think about how that may have happened."

The research, which took four years, involved disentangling and making sense of 1.1 billion DNA fragments taken from Neanderthal bones.

Over time the DNA had degraded into small pieces and much of it was chemically modified.

Most of the 400 milligrams of bone powder used came from three female bones recovered from Vindija cave in Croatia and dated to around 40,000 years old. Other samples were from Russia, Spain and Germany.

New cutting-edge techniques were used to avoid confusion with DNA from contaminating microbes and human contact.

The analysis highlighted certain parts of the Neanderthal genome which resembled those of chimpanzees more than modern humans.

Several genes were discovered that differed between Neanderthals and Homo sapiens and may have played important roles in the evolution of modern humans.

They included genes involved in mental functions, metabolism, and development of the skull, collar bone and rib cage.
Old May 8th, 2010 #14
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You don't really believe humans were around for a 100,000 years and only started thinking criticly 6,000 years ago do you? There is no civilizational artifacts older than 55 hundred years.
Old May 10th, 2010 #15
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Originally Posted by Philadelphian View Post
There is no civilizational artifacts older than 55 hundred years.
Sungir, near Vladimir, Russia, dates to 28,000 BC. 192 km from Moscow at 56°11" N 40°30" E in the Russian Republic. Cultural artifacts. About 28 000 years ago, the residents of the Russian site of Sungir produced thousands of personal ornaments and a number of ivory carvings in geometric forms. See reference [1]

28,000 BC is a long time before 5500 BC.



[1] Kuzmin, Y. V., G. S. Burr, A. J. T. Jull and L. D. Sulerzhitsky. 2004. AMS 14C age of the Upper Palaeolithic skeletons from Sungirnext term site, Central Russian Plain. Nuclear Instruments and Methods in Physics Research Section B: Beam Interactions with Materials and Atoms 223-224:731-734.
Красным цветом в России будет цвет коммунистических еврейств

Old June 13th, 2010 #16
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Artefacts hint at earliest Neanderthals in Britain

Archaeologists have found what they say is the earliest evidence of Neanderthals living in Britain.

Two pieces of flint unearthed at motorway works in Dartford, Kent, have now been dated to 110,000 years ago.

The finds push back the presence of Neanderthals in Britain by 40,000 years or more, said Dr Francis Wenban-Smith, from Southampton University.
Old August 9th, 2010 #17
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Neanderthal's Cozy Bedroom Unearthed

Even though it isn't wired for broadband, this prehistoric domicile does have beds and even a fireplace.

Anthropologists have unearthed the remains of an apparent Neanderthal cave sleeping chamber, complete with a hearth and nearby grass beds that might have once been covered with animal fur.
Old August 10th, 2010 #18
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I have just now noticed something in this photo: At the top is a superb image of a bear; what makes it unusual is it's a frontal depiction - something I've never seen before in ancient cave art.


Old October 24th, 2010 #19
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Default Neanderthals 'did NOT make tools and jewellery': Study finds items at famous dig site

Neanderthals 'did NOT make tools and jewellery': Study finds items at famous dig site are actually from later period

Last updated at 2:17 PM on 20th October 2010

The theory that some Neanderthals were advanced enough to create jewellery and tools similar to those of modern humans has suffered a major setback.

Scientists using radiocarbon dating found that an archaeological site that links Neanderthal remains to sophisticated tools may actually contain items from different eras mixed together.

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Old November 6th, 2010 #20
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The Neanderthals were short, hairy with huge noses and receding chins and
foreheads now who does that remind people of?
You know what the difference between Jews and Nazi's
is? Jews are guilty of the crimes their accused of.

jew science, neanderthals


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