Vanguard News Network
VNN Media
VNN Digital Library
VNN Reader Mail
VNN Broadcasts

Old February 6th, 2013 #1
Daryl Basarab
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 77
Daryl Basarab
Default Ashkenazi Jews as Admixed Caucasians (My Viewpoint) Backed by Major Genetic Study

“We conclude that the genome of European Jews is a tapestry of ancient populations including Judaised Khazars, Greco-Roman Jews, Mesopotamian Jews and Judeans,” says Elhaik.
Said it since 2007 - I've always alleged that Jews were a mix of Caucasian populations - but not Nordic populations. That they have some Khazar blood, but aren't 100% Khazar. You can also find posts by me as far back as 2007 claiming that a "Mediterranean race" exists from the Middle East to the end of Southern Europe and posts in 2010 claiming that Jews (Sephardic and Ashkenazi) are partially Roman and you can find posts far back claiming that Jews mixed with other Caucasians, but only a little bit with nordics. You can find me arguing that Sephardic and Italians were similar as far back as 2007.

Yet I had detractors.

It appears from this study that those detractors are about to fall flat on their faces.

The question is whether thomas777, jw holiday, david duke, kevin macdonald, the phora and any of those clowns can now be seen as a reliable source of information, given that I took my position has been validated by the scientific community. You railroaded me off that forum and everyone knows it was over this, yet the evidence turned in my favor.

My position was never "Jews are nordic." It was "Jews are admixed around the Mediterranean sea, then admixed with Khazars and less admixed with Northern Europeans. But still overall within the range of Caucasoid."

You look at these white nationalists and realize "I've been researching this for 5-6 years and figured it out by the first year. These people have been researching it for 30 years and still don't get it. Are they idiots, or are they biased?"

The bottom line is that all the banning, outing, trolling, changes nothing. The bottom line is that I saw the truth before others could see it. Period.
Old February 14th, 2013 #2
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 203

Well, you've demonstrated, as Nicholas Wade did some years ago, that Jews are genetically insular and are in fact the descendants of the Levantine populations of early antiquity.

Who exactly claims otherwise? Pastor Martin Lindstedt? CI cranks who ascribe to ''British Isrealism''? Internet retards who've never cracked a book?

Furthermore, I do now, and always have, ascribed to Ernst Nolte's, Mircea Eliade's, Martin Heidegger's, and Carl Schmitt's view of Jewish/Aryan enmity - and more broadly the historiographical enmity that exists between Jews and literally everybody else, on grounds of their peculiar theological/political/historical orientation, the characteristics of which were most cogently presented by Werner Sombart.

I also didn't ''run you off'' the Phora or any other forum. I don't really understand why you're singling me out as some kind of rival.

You have your own website where I assume you share ideas with your friends who sympathize with you. This doesn't have anything to do with me.

Your pal Brad Griffin is the guy I know of in our little circle of forums/blogs/media who is the strongest proponent of the biological view of race and racial politics. Argue this with him if you're feeling froggy. I don't have much to add here.
Old March 5th, 2013 #3
Daryl Basarab
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 77
Daryl Basarab

I've demonstrated a Levant common thread - but I've also demonstrated that the thread has been highly diluted by admixture with Romans (Sephardics) and ALSO Khazars (in the case of Ashkenazi). Finally local admixture. I've also demonstrated the commonalities between Southern Europeans and Middle Easterners.

The real point I was making, however, is that I LONG AGO suggested views that were approximately correct - but I got written off as some sort of deceiving Jewish agent for knowing what I was talking about.

I don't really have much animosity towards you, I just like to single you out because people on the "fake" phora hold you in high regard and respect you.

Fade actually isn't as much concerned with genetics as many of the human biodiversity posters. I probably pay more attention to DNA studies than Fade does.
Old May 20th, 2013 #4
Daryl Basarab
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 77
Daryl Basarab
Scientists usually don’t call each other “liars” and “frauds.”

But that’s how Johns Hopkins University post-doctoral researcher Eran Elhaik describes a group of widely respected geneticists, including Harry Ostrer, professor of pathology and genetics at Yeshiva University’s Albert Einstein College of Medicine and author of the 2012 book “Legacy: A Genetic History of the Jewish People.”

For years now, the findings of Ostrer and several other scientists have stood virtually unchallenged on the genetics of Jews and the story they tell of the common Middle East origins shared by many Jewish populations worldwide. Jews — and Ashkenazim in particular — are indeed one people, Ostrer’s research finds.

It’s a theory that more or less affirms the understanding that many Jews themselves hold of who they are in the world: a people who, though scattered, share an ethnic-racial bond rooted in their common ancestral descent from the indigenous Jews of ancient Judea or Palestine, as the Romans called it after they conquered the Jewish homeland.

But now, Elhaik, an Israeli molecular geneticist, has published research that he says debunks this claim. And that has set off a predictable clash.

“He’s just wrong,” said Marcus Feldman of Stanford University, a leading researcher in Jewish genetics, referring to Elhaik.

The sometimes strong emotions generated by this scientific dispute stem from a politically loaded question that scientists and others have pondered for decades: Where in the world did Ashkenazi Jews come from?

The debate touches upon such sensitive issues as whether the Jewish people is a race or a religion, and whether Jews or Palestinians are descended from the original inhabitants of what is now the State of Israel.

Ostrer’s theory is sometimes marshaled to lend the authority of science to the Zionist narrative, which views the migration of modern-day Jews to what is now Israel, and their rule over that land, as a simple act of repossession by the descendants of the land’s original residents. Ostrer declined to be interviewed for this story. But in his writings, Ostrer points out the dangers of such reductionism; some of the same genetic markers common among Jews, he finds, can be found in Palestinians, as well.

By using sophisticated molecular tools, Feldman, Ostrer and most other scientists in the field have found that Jews are genetically homogeneous. No matter where they live, these scientists say, Jews are genetically more similar to each other than to their non-Jewish neighbors, and they have a shared Middle Eastern ancestry.

The geneticists’ research backs up what is known as the Rhineland Hypothesis. According to the hypothesis, Ashkenazi Jews descended from Jews who fled Palestine after the Muslim conquest in the seventh century and settled in Southern Europe. In the late Middle Ages they moved into eastern Europe from Germany, or the Rhineland.

“Nonsense,” said Elhaik, a 33-year-old Israeli Jew from Beersheba who earned a doctorate in molecular evolution from the University of Houston. The son of an Italian man and Iranian woman who met in Israel, Elhaik, a dark-haired, compact man, sat down recently for an interview in his bare, narrow cubicle of an office at Hopkins, where he’s worked for four years.

In “The Missing Link of Jewish European Ancestry: Contrasting the Rhineland and the Khazarian Hypotheses,” published in December in the online journal Genome Biology and Evolution, Elhaik says he has proved that Ashkenazi Jews’ roots lie in the Caucasus — a region at the border of Europe and Asia that lies between the Black and Caspian seas — not in the Middle East. They are descendants, he argues, of the Khazars, a Turkic people who lived in one of the largest medieval states in Eurasia and then migrated to Eastern Europe in the 12th and 13th centuries. Ashkenazi genes, Elhaik added, are far more heterogeneous than Ostrer and other proponents of the Rhineland Hypothesis believe. Elhaik did find a Middle Eastern genetic marker in DNA from Jews, but, he says, it could be from Iran, not ancient Judea.

Elhaik writes that the Khazars converted to Judaism in the eighth century, although many historians believe that only royalty and some members of the aristocracy converted. But widespread conversion by the Khazars is the only way to explain the ballooning of the European Jewish population to 8 million at the beginning of the 20th century from its tiny base in the Middle Ages, Elhaik says.

Elhaik bases his conclusion on an analysis of genetic data published by a team of researchers led by Doron Behar, a population geneticist and senior physician at Israel’s Rambam Medical Center, in Haifa. Using the same data, Behar’s team published in 2010 a paper concluding that most contemporary Jews around the world and some non-Jewish populations from the Levant, or Eastern Mediterranean, are closely related.

Elhaik used some of the same statistical tests as Behar and others, but he chose different comparisons. Elhaik compared “genetic signatures” found in Jewish populations with those of modern-day Armenians and Georgians, which he uses as a stand-in for the long-extinct Khazarians because they live in the same area as the medieval state.

“It’s an unrealistic premise,” said University of Arizona geneticist Michael Hammer, one of Behar’s co-authors, of Elhaik’s paper. Hammer notes that Armenians have Middle Eastern roots, which, he says, is why they appeared to be genetically related to Ashkenazi Jews in Elhaik’s study.

Hammer, who also co-wrote the first paper that showed modern-day Kohanim are descended from a single male ancestor, calls Elhaik and other Khazarian Hypothesis proponents “outlier folks… who have a minority view that’s not supported scientifically. I think the arguments they make are pretty weak and stretching what we know.”

Feldman, director of Stanford’s Morrison Institute for Population and Resource Studies, echoes Hammer. “If you take all of the careful genetic population analysis that has been done over the last 15 years… there’s no doubt about the common Middle Eastern origin,” he said. He added that Elhaik’s paper “is sort of a one-off.”

Elhaik’s statistical analysis would not pass muster with most contemporary scholars, Feldman said: “He appears to be applying the statistics in a way that gives him different results from what everybody else has obtained from essentially similar data.”

Elhaik, who doesn’t believe that Moses, Aaron or the 12 Tribes of Israel ever existed, shrugs off such criticism.

“That’s a circular argument,” he said of the notion that Jews’ and Armenians’ genetic similarities stem from common ancestors in the Middle East and not from Khazaria, the area where the Armenians live. If you believe that, he says, then other non-Jewish populations, such as Georgian, that are genetically similar to Armenians should be considered genetically related to Jews, too, “and so on and so forth.”

Dan Graur, Elhaik’s doctoral supervisor at U.H. and a member of the editorial board of the journal that published his paper, calls his former student “very ambitious, very independent. That’s what I like.” Graur, a Romanian-born Jew who served on the faculty of Tel Aviv University for 22 years before moving 10 years ago to the Houston school, said Elhaik “writes more provocatively than may be needed, but it’s his style.” Graur calls Elhaik’s conclusion that Ashkenazi Jews originated to the east of Germany “a very honest estimate.”

In a news article that accompanied Elhaik’s journal paper, Shlomo Sand, history professor at Tel Aviv University and author of the controversial 2009 book “The Invention of the Jewish People,” said the study vindicated his long-held ideas.

”It’s so obvious for me,” Sand told the journal. “Some people, historians and even scientists, turn a blind eye to the truth. Once, to say Jews were a race was anti-Semitic, now to say they’re not a race is anti-Semitic. It’s crazy how history plays with us.”

The paper has received little coverage in mainstream American media, but it has attracted the attention of anti-Zionists and “anti-Semitic white supremacists,” Elhaik said.

Interestingly, while anti-Zionist bloggers have applauded Elhaik’s work, saying it proves that contemporary Jews have no legitimate claim to Israel, some white supremacists have attacked it.

“The disruptive and conflict-ridden behavior which has marked out Jewish Supremacist activities through the millennia strongly suggests that Jews have remained more or less genetically uniform and have… developed a group evolutionary survival strategy based on a common biological unity — something which strongly militates against the Khazar theory,” former Louisiana state assemblyman David Duke (retard) wrote on his blog in February.

“I’m not communicating with them,” Elhaik said of the white supremacists. He says it also bothers him, a veteran of seven years in the Israeli army, that anti-Zionists have capitalized on his research “and they’re not going to be proven wrong anytime soon.”

But proponents of the Rhineland Hypothesis also have a political agenda, he said, claiming they “were motivated to justify the Zionist narrative.”

To illustrate his point, Elhaik swivels his chair around to face his computer and calls up a 2010 email exchange with Ostrer.

“It was a great pleasure reading your group’s recent paper, ‘Abraham’s Children in the Genome Era,’ that illuminate the history of our people,” Elhaik wrote to Ostrer. “Is it possible to see the data used for the study?”

Ostrer replied that the data are not publicly available. “It is possible to collaborate with the team by writing a brief proposal that outlines what you plan to do,” he wrote. “Criteria for reviewing include novelty and strength of the proposal, non-overlap with current or planned activities, and non-defamatory nature toward the Jewish people.” That last requirement, Elhaik argues, reveals the bias of Ostrer and his collaborators.

Allowing scientists access to data only if their research will not defame Jews is “peculiar,” said Catherine DeAngelis, who edited the Journal of the American Medical Association for a decade. “What he does is set himself up for criticism: Wait a minute. What’s this guy trying to hide?”

Despite what his critics claim, Elhaik says, he was not out to prove that contemporary Jews have no connection to the Jewish people of the Bible. His primary research focus is the genetics of mental illness, which, he explains, led him to question the assumption that Ashkenazi Jews are a useful population to study because they’re so homogeneous.

Elhaik says he first read about the Khazarian Hypothesis a decade ago in a 1976 book by the late Hungarian-British author Arthur Koestler, “The Thirteenth Tribe,” written before scientists had the tools to compare genomes. Koestler, who was Jewish by birth, said his aim in writing the book was to eliminate the racist underpinnings of anti-Semitism in Europe. “Should this theory be confirmed, the term ‘anti-Semitism’ would become void of meaning,” the book jacket reads. Although Koestler’s book was generally well reviewed, some skeptics questioned the author’s grasp of the history of Khazaria.

Graur is not surprised that Elhaik has stood up against the “clique” of scientists who believe that Jews are genetically homogeneous. “He enjoys being combative,” Graur said. “That’s what science is.”
Old September 25th, 2016 #5
Daryl Basarab
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 77
Daryl Basarab

By the way I don't believe the Khazar input is major, but still believe Jews are basically mixed between Middle Easterners and Europeans. I believe all Europeans are derivations of Middle Easterners, but Jews have stronger Med elements than anything but the most Southern Europeans (Sicilians, Greeks etc).

In my view the first Caucasians were Meds. This differs a bit from nordicism.
Old August 4th, 2017 #6
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 2

Jews are not European, so therefore not white. Period. End of discussion.


Display Modes

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:22 PM.
Page generated in 0.11695 seconds.