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January 26th, 2011 | #21 | |
Celebrating My Diversity
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I think that's some dude at a Southern Baptist Convention. I included that pic for a specific reason. You will never see a minister in the pulpit of an Episcopal, Lutheran, or Presbyterian Church that looks like that, save for a few "hip," "liberal" congregations staffed by fresh seminary graduates. You can probably find a few more in Methodist outlets. Not the countenance. Not the smug "hipness." Not the gesticulation. The goofy haircut. That appeals to a certain class of people. . .people who watch Wrestlemania. Are there Baptist churches where that isn't the norm. . .or even tolerated? There used to be more. There are still a few. But they are fewer year by year. When you go lower than Baptist, that guy becomes relatively sedate. What's really funny to me is the guy in the picture is attempting to effect an image opposite the historical Baptist ministerial persona, ie, a bigoted, goofy, pompous, uneducated hick. But he's only produced a variation on that theme, dressed-up for the 21st century. He doesn't (and maybe can't) recognize the irony. |
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January 26th, 2011 | #22 |
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January 27th, 2011 | #23 |
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Didn't it used to be that once a Baptist made some money he'd become an Episcopalian?
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January 28th, 2011 | #24 |
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Leonard - this is really interesting. In your view, how do Catholics fit, in the scheme of things? I understand Protestants predominate in the South but I'm sure there's a Catholic presence there, and I wonder how you see them in terms of social status etc. This is a fascinating discussion!
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January 31st, 2011 | #25 |
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I can vouch for this- since Catholicism is universal, it will encompass all walks of life. You can find beautiful cathedrals to shit shacks that will qualify as Catholic churches (I'm speaking of Catholicism in the United States). Generally, the individual church's class will match that of the community. If the community is upscale, the church will be upscale. If the community is a blue collar community, the church will reflect that by looking similar to some of the baptist churches posted. This is based on my observation of Catholic churches in the United States (when I attended them because I semi-believed in the stuff) from different places I've lived and been to (mainly east coast places such as DC, Baltimore, Richmond, Erie-area PA, Georgia, NC, SC, among others). I'd imagine Catholic churches in California and Texas would be radicalmente diferente .
It would be good to note that Catholicism in the United States is closer to American protestantism than European Catholicism, imo. |
January 31st, 2011 | #26 | |
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I was raised (casual) Episcopalian, and I still have my grandfather's Episcopalian prayer book. And I do read it sometimes, rhapsody of words that it is, like the Holey Babble. "I'm the little jew who wrote the bible." --Leonard Cohen in the song The Future |
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January 31st, 2011 | #27 | |
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As you note, there is a Catholic presense in the South. There has been a (generally) minor presence from the beginning. The presense was more substantial in certain coastal cities. Southern Louisiana is another case entirely, and I'm not competent to comment on them. As others Southern cities grew to prominence, there were established parishes in those areas, mostly due to the expansion of industry from "up north." Since the 60s, there has been a massive growth of Catholics in the South generally, due to internal movement to the "Sun Belt." So there's a lot of diversity within Catholics in the South. There are Catholic Southerners and there are southern Catholics, if you note the difference. Catholics, in my experience, can't be shoehorned to the degree Protestant adherents can. Everything I've done above is highly qualitative (obviously), but my intent was to rank what I perceived to be the mean "people quality" of each denomination. The flip side of that is I perceive deviation. Think of overlapping bell curves along a horizontal continuum. The mean of Catholics, in my personal experience, is probably about at the Lutheran/Presbyterian level, that is, near the top. But they tend to be like Methodists in that there is a wide deviation--all over the place. I would imagine--but don't know because I haven't experienced--that in places where Catholics are endemic they run the entire gammut from high life to low life, skewed toward low life. In a place that is basically mono-religious, it could hardly be any other way. Note this is not in any way based on the quality/set-up of the church/services--where the comparison is always to Episcopalians/Lutherans, since they kept the most Roman Catholic outward culture. There do appear to be some wholesale differences in Catholics, too, compared to their Protestant brethren, again, imo. Alex has noted the tendency of Catholics to be passive-aggressive, screw you by withholding information, etc. I've experienced that. It's not that Catholics are the only ones who do that--by no means--it's just, somehow, typical in a way that isn't for Protestant adherents. And there's a savvyness/guile among Catholics that's missing from their Protestant counterparts, particularly as you make comparisons lower on the totem pole. There's some kind of "street smarts" that you see in a Catholic dummy that you don't see in a Baptist dummy. Catholic parishes also tend to be much larger because there is so little internal competition. You might have one parish for a large area, whereas you'd have 2, 3, or 5 outlets of a single Protestant denomination in the same general area. Again, the lower you go, the more apt you are to find multiple franchises. Episcopalians/Lutherans tend to be like Catholics--more or less one to an area. Presbyterians, similar but apt to be more locations, on average. It starts to balloon with Methodists and then explodes as you get to Baptists and below. But that's consistent with the ratios of adherents to general population. That so many Catholic parishes in the South are new--or effectively new in that an influx of newcomers has swamped the small, local pre-existing group over the past 30 or 40 years--plays big, too. There may be more splintered-off parishes as time goes on. And you've got the "mover" bias that you see in many emigrant populations--the ones who move tend to self-select for higher class than those who stay, in general. At least that's my experience. |
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January 31st, 2011 | #28 |
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The Catholic response/facilitation of the mestizo invasion is also different from Protestants, generally.
Catholics tend to shoehorn multiple cultures into one parish until the original (White) group is effectively ethnically cleansed. Mestizos have taken-over smaller and "mission" parishes, usually rural. (This isn't a comment on Texas/south Florida, where there are drastically different dynamics.) My understanding is that this is the same kind of thing that happened in northern cities (New York, Chicago, Cleveland, Philadelphia etc) where ethnic Polish, German, etc parishes turned mud as non-Whites inundated the surrounding areas, often with the support/facilitation of the parishoners' own Catholic hierarchy. This might be more common in certain Protestant areas (I'm thinking Midwestern Lutherans here) but I don't know. You don't see this in mainline Protestantism, where the more "liberal" you are the Whiter is the congregation. When you get down to Baptist, a lot of congregations are into mixing token niggers, spics, etc. At the bottom Pentecostal level, congregations tend to be openly miscegenistic, with some notable exceptions. The more "evangelical" a congregation is, the more apt it is to be into token niggers, etc. Mainline denominations (and Baptists) tend just to seed congregations for non-Whites groups at the outset. So socially, I see some overlap between Catholics and bottom-of-barrel Protestants in regards to racemixing. Both tend to attempt actively to meld races under their particular wacky religious/social "rationale." It's not so blatant/active with mainline Protestantism. Last edited by Leonard Rouse; January 31st, 2011 at 03:51 PM. |
February 7th, 2011 | #29 |
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Where Have All the Presbyterians Gone?
Nondenominational churches are the fastest growing in the country By RUSSELL D. MOORE Are we witnessing the death of America's Christian denominations? Studies conducted by secular and Christian organizations indicate that we are. Fewer and fewer American Christians, especially Protestants, strongly identify with a particular religious communion—Methodist, Baptist, Presbyterian, Pentecostal, etc. According to the Baylor Survey on Religion, nondenominational churches now represent the second largest group of Protestant churches in America, and they are also the fastest growing. More and more Christians choose a church not on the basis of its denomination, but on the basis of more practical matters. Is the nursery easy to find? Do I like the music? Are there support groups for those grappling with addiction? This trend is a natural extension of the American evangelical experiment. After all, evangelicalism is about the fundamental message of Christianity—the evangel, the gospel, literally the "good news" of God's kingdom arriving in Jesus Christ—not about denomination building. The post-World War II generation of evangelicals was responding to congregations filled with what they considered spiritual deadness. People belonged to a church, but they seemed to have no emotional experience of Christianity inside the building. Revivalists watched as denominational bureaucracies grew larger, and churches shifted from sending missionaries to preach around the world to producing white papers on issues like energy policy. More and more Christians choose a church not on the basis of its denomination, but on the basis of more practical matters. The revivalists wanted to get back to basics, to recover the centrality of a personal relationship with Jesus. "Being a member of a church doesn't make you a Christian," the ubiquitous evangelical pulpit cliché went, "any more than living in a garage makes you a car." Thus these evangelical ministries tended not to talk about those issues that might divide their congregants. They avoided questions like: Who should be baptized and when? What does the Lord's Supper mean? Should women be ordained? And so on. The movement exploded. Before 1955, there were virtually no megachurches (defined as 2,000 people per worship service) in the country. Now there are between 850 and 1,200 such churches and many are nondenominational, according to the Hartford Institute for Religion Research. Evangelicalism wanted to open its doors to all believers and it often lacked roots in the traditions of particular congregations. So many evangelical churches have a generic identity. This has changed the feel of local church life. Where hymnody once came from the spontaneity of slave spirituals or camp meetings, worship songs are increasingly now focus-grouped by executives in Nashville. The evangelical "Veggie Tales" cartoons—animated Bible stories featuring talking cucumbers and tomatoes—probably shape more children in their view of scripture than any denominational catechism does these days. A church that requires immersion baptism before taking communion, as most Baptist traditions do, will likely get indignant complaints from evangelical visitors who feel like they've been denied service at a restaurant. But there are some signs of a growing church-focused evangelicalism. Many young evangelicals may be poised to reconsider denominational doctrine, if for no other reason than they are showing signs of fatigue with typical evangelical consumerism. For example, artists such as Keith and Kristen Getty and Sojourn Music are reaching a new generation with music written for and performed by local congregations. Yes, prosperity preacher Joyce Meyer sells her book "Eat the Cookie, Buy the Shoes," which encourages Christians to "lighten up" by eating cookies and buying shoes (seriously). But, at the same time, Alabama preacher David Platt is igniting thousands of young people with his book "Radical," which calls Christians to rescue their faith by lowering their standard of living and giving their time and money to Church-based charities. And though nondenominational churches are growing, the Southern Baptist Convention—the nation's largest Protestant group—has over 10,000 students studying for ministry in six seminaries right now. If denominationalism simply denotes a "brand" vying for market share, then let denominationalism fall. But many of us believe denominations can represent fidelity to living traditions of local congregations that care about what Jesus cared about—personal conversion, discipleship, mission and community. Perhaps the denominational era has just begun. Mr. Moore is dean of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, KY. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...548462776.html |
October 6th, 2016 | #30 | |
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True
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Life long Southerner. I just have one thing I see a little differently. That would be this: if you were you raised as a SB, you might adopt a certain mentality that de-values learning, but even that would not override your genetic pre-disposition to be above that kind of thinking. And genetics are precisely why your parents did not immerse you in that, but in something a little higher on the totem pole of intelligence/dignity. But sometimes you find yourself in the company of those you neither fit in with nor agree with, and no matter the level of indoctrination, it cannot stick, because what's going on internally can't be 'overridden' by all the programming in the world. At least that's the case for me. It's also the same reason the 'Millenials' who have been inundated with the 'niggers are great, they're actually superior to you, you came outta Africa, Lucy is your grandma, race is a social construct' programming have been able to reject it. Your inner workings know better if they still function properly. I've had more conversations than I can count about why it is that the more intelligent of the White race-the Lindberghs and similar-are not more visible in droves as racialists. Of course there is the harassment factor, but why so many scumbags (prison gangs and 'white trash'?) My answer many times has been this: Sometimes, people on the 'low' end of society-they've been around niggers or in prison, and they really know first-hand what a jungle-like race battle looks like. So they have nothing to lose in telling the truth, as they are already living a hard, bad life. So that's why 'lower classes' of people might actually be the first to tell the truth about these kinds of things. But as for the disheartening feeling when I see this element in Whites: I feel they are our niggers. I've often said this also, and I feel it's the truth: the majority of niggers are low-life trash, and their minority within their race are decent or capable. Our majority are decent and capable, but our minority are low-life trash. So it is real sad/sickening also-when this 'minority' within the White race is trotted out as 'representative' of people who value racial loyalty. The Whites who hate Non-Christians and education/science are not only a hindrance, they are dangerous. I actually see them as a problem-at the very least-on equal footing with niggers or Mexicans. They are possibly more dangerous in some ways, because they are willing to kill, rape, maim their own for 'posturing' and positioning purposes. And they harass in a fashion that would make the SPLC jealous. I despise seeing a White person that I am ashamed of. It's much more confusing to the mind than seeing a shameful nigger. Because I have no feelings of relation to the nigger. To see Whites who you know full well would rape, crucify, and set you on fire over your refusal to bow to their god and kiss their retarded ass is far more disturbing, and my feelings of wanting them out of my midst are as strong as ISIS or anything else ignorant, trashy, and dangerous. They will have rotten lives due to their own stupidity and trashiness, and yes, as you say in your piece, misery loves company. But those willing to undergo abuse for racial honesty-having to be most viciously assaulted by whites over religion and science, more viciously even than by the other side-is most sick. If they were niggers you'd say,'Oh, well, what can you expect? TNB.' Much more putrid when they're White. So I'm still trying to wrap my mind around that. People threatening to kill me over Jesus. White people. And so crazy that they do it openly, in a most prove-able, illegal way. And so sick they would enjoy harming me, and I know it. It's exactly what Jewish media has always used-our small component of sick trash-to turn majority Whites, who they know feel racial loyalty but want nothing to do with sick trash-away from speaking openly on race. I'll say this: the racial reality is the same, no matter what the bad element of Whites do. It just is. But that's a difficult thing. Those that embarrass Whites, and scare them from activism, with their dirt-baggery toward other Whites, are and will continue to be a big deterrent. Hopefully the level of awareness people have, from what they've been experiencing, will cause a continued rise in outspoken, smart Whites who are not in that camp, as we see with the Alt Right. *BTW-there are some in the 'criminal classes' who would not hurt a woman, would not do things to other Whites, etc. Those are not the 'dirtbags' I'm talking about. I don't even find fault with those that are low IQ but have basic understanding and want to help. It's those that truly are sick, evil, and enjoy harming people who they know are their superiors (and boy does it ever get under their skin if that's a female) who I'm referring to. Everyone who's been anywhere, done anything, met anyone, knows what type I mean. They are our lower DNA, which every race has. And they will be as they always have, a problem and obstacle to dealing with real problems (Syrians, Jews, Niggers, Mestizos). Like having a weak immune system when fighting disease. An obstacle, but can be overcome. How ironic, 'we shall overcome.'
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"Inquiry and doubt are essential checks against deception."--Richard Carrier Last edited by Emily Henderson; October 6th, 2016 at 10:32 PM. |
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October 16th, 2016 | #31 |
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If you want to see White trash culture first hand, come to rural small towns in Kentucky where there are more cheap prefabricated "churches" than businesses in these areas. Although many would say a church and a business are one and the same, and I might agree with that. Most of the youth have left the area to seek jobs elsewhere, and left all the old crusty White trash behind. That's about the lowest the White race can get intellectually and culturally. And it's right here in "America". American cultural superiority is a joke. It's more like boasting that we're more Loxist than you.
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October 17th, 2016 | #32 |
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I see plenty of White trash--they are usually wearing government-issued uniforms. And the xtians who knock on my door trying to convert me to their cult.
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October 19th, 2016 | #33 | |
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White Trash is what White Trash does......
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lying hypocrisy and adopted wigger and Semitic cultural values that lack neither intellectual honesty and nor any whole truths. Most real problems mostly are all of those within. Know thyself! |
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December 5th, 2016 | #34 | |
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Will Williams and Fred Streed come to mind as clear examples.
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In actions and in words that are contradictory and mutually exclusive. See: http://vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=476357&page=2 Attention whores. You lying hypocrites! Buyer beware! Last edited by Paul Vogel; December 7th, 2016 at 10:20 AM. |
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