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Old August 8th, 2004 #1
Sumadinac
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Default What makes someone tough?

--question asked and answers which may be of interest to this forum-

(POSTED)
My question is this: What makes a man tough?

I ask this as an old guy -- 48 -- who has never been in a fight, but has dabbled in the martial arts off and on for years, and just started boxing.

In all the years I was in martial arts, I ran across only a few people I thought were "tough." I don't mean a bully, or a loud mouth who likes to intimidate people. But men who carried themselves in a certain way. I see more men like that in the boxing gym. I wonder if it is because they do years of sparring, actually hitting and getting hit.

When you are in a bar, or out on the street, what characterstics to you see in a man that you know makes him tough. Again, I'm not talking about the kind of guy who looks for fights. But there are certain kind of men who send of vibes that you would not want to tangle with them. These men are not always the biggest men in the room. Nor are they the youngest and most athletic.

What is it? Are there certain ways a man carries himsef? What is it?

Can it be learned? Or does it have to come from experience?

For example, is a kid who was raised in bad area of town always going to be tougher than a kid raised in the suburbs?

I know this doesn't have anything specific to boxing, and yet I have found that the boxers I have met all have this characterstic. I'm curious where it comes from.
 
Old August 8th, 2004 #2
Sumadinac
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..and sorry you had other questions.
is it learned, yes, you grow up learning the ropes of the tough guy scene, because of what you know. maybe your not a fighter, but instead just try and intimidate people, and are very good at it, or maybe you showed yourself how to get around it.

i dont think it is genetic.
can your background impair that, yes, most definitly. you notice many schoolyard bullies, grow up to be adult bullies (usually in prison where they belong).

i think also, a certain situation can affect your toughness as well, like my story above. you may just be sitting peacefully at a bar, having a drink by yourself, and the next minute, someone tries to show you up and give you a hard time. i think many tough guys who end up showing others how tough they are, are usually just minding their own business, just getting along, and they are dragged to that point of no return by some no-neck with an attitude.

will a kid raised in a bad area in town grow up tougher than a suburd child, no, i know that for a fact, in fact as a kid the first fight i lost was to a middle class, average boy, but on the flip side, i won against many "hard knock" kids with relative ease. sure the kid on the rough side of town probably has to ACT tough to make it through his neighborhood, and they may well fight alot, but in the real world the difference between who can back up their words and who just uses words so they seem like they can back it up is the difference between a severe concussion and the one who walks home and goes to sleep in his bed, instead of sitting in the emergence room half the night.
 
Old August 8th, 2004 #3
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another answer-
"As I said previously, I don't consider myself a tough guy at all. I've never been in a fight. When I was dabbling in the martial arts, I was always nervous about sparring. Much more of a reactive kind of sparer. It felt strange to throw a punch. I'm a tall guy -- 6 feet 4, 200 and in shape -- so I don't get picked on.

But underneath all this is this sense of nervousness. I'd see a guy in a bar and think he'd kick everyone's ass, mine included. Or the guys lifttig weights, I just assumed were tough.

I'm old enough -- 48 -- so I dont have to play the young man's game of trying to prove anything to anyone. And I feel at ease asking guys questions and learning from them. So I started asking guys I thought were tough what it meant to be tough. Very interesting what I learned.

So about a year ago I had a chance to get to know some bikers. Not the yuppie bikers, but the real deal bikers. I asked a couple of them to evaluate me. If they saw me, what would they think. I assumed it would be: Middle-aged white-guy wimp.

What I learned surprised me. They said they thought I was confident, not the kind of guy to back down. They felt that I didn't try to act like I was something I was not. Not a game player. And I looked them in the eyes.

I thought about that a lot. About a month ago, I put some of it into practice. I was walking up the street early in the morning and saw three rough looking guys hanging out on the sidewalk. There were in their 20s. I had been out jogging and as I approached them I saw the game that was about to be played.

They were standing in the middle of the sidewalk, blocking my way. I was about a block away and I knew that I would either have to cross the street, or somehow avoid them. Now if this had been in a bad area of town, I would have done that. No need to be stupid. But it was downtown, in the morning, nothing was going to happen. This was about intimidation.

So I kept walking, looking them in the eye. Not slowing down, not smiling, nervously, or trying to act tough. Just a calm look on my face. They knew I was there. I knew they were there.

When I got to about 15 feet away, they looked down and moved away. One of the guys nodded, I said "how you doing."

I realized as I walked away that I had won. Not that winning is important. No reason to risk getting beat up for anything. If it had been in a bad situation, I would have run like hell.

But it made me realize that at least a part of being tough has to do with confidence, not necessarily being a kick as fighter and knowing hundreds of martial arts moves.

I'm asking guys on this board about the next level. The true tough guys build on that foundation. I'm wondering what it is, and what lesson we can all learn."
 
Old August 8th, 2004 #4
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--a reply aimed at some White kids-

i think the lesson is, you dont have to pump your head full of nonsense and put out attitude constantly to prove you are tough, you just need to sit back, enjoy yourself, but do what you gotta do.

as far as the bikers saying that you arent fake, and you dont try and act like someone your not, that good advice for all around life.

we all know the kids nowadays, everybody is falling into the urban scene, acting like thugs and trying to prove how ghetto they are, saying they live in the struggle, or what many people call acting black.

problem is, these are rich, upper class, silver spoon, spoiled white kids doing this. they dont have a thing their mommy and daddy didnt give them, and they couldnt tell you anything about a struggle. those types of people are what i would consider fake, and wimps as well. dont live someone elses life, live your own.

"the black man is the most copied man in america. everyone wants to be black, but no one wants to BE black"

those are the posers, they want to talk black, and act black, think their tough, act like theyre from the 'hood', talking about how gangster they are, but when it comes to being gangsta and ghetto, they dont have a clue. take away their lexus, and put them on the city bus. take away their house and stick them in a run down studio apartment in the ghetto, with no food, or heat. stick them in a neighborhood where they cant walk outside without getting beat on by 10 guys everytime they do, or worried about being shot just walking down the street, make them walk up to real gangstas and tell them how tough they are, and see what happens. all of a sudden, they dont feel so tough, they realize they arent gangsta OR ghetto, and the whole act isnt as fun as it used to be.

real tough guys dont put on shows to prove how tough they are, and they dont try and convince people otherwise, they just live their life the way its meant to be lived.
 
Old August 8th, 2004 #5
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another reply:

"...This is a difficult question to answer, but I’ll share my 2 cents. First, I honestly believe that “tough” has a different definition for someone who has fought competitively. Now, I don’t want anyone to misinterpret this as a “pat on the back”… I do however believe that once you have fought, everything else changes.

There is a difference between “looking tough” and “being tough”. Most guys in the street have no idea what it feels like to wait by yourself, in preparation for a one-on-one FIGHT with an EXPERIENCED fighter who has been training with the sole intention of KNOCKING YOU OUT.

Once you go through this experience several times, you develop a whole new sense of confidence in life. You have a whole new perspective on what an “obstacle” really is. When you are in the ring, you are fighting with everyone’s eyes on YOU. Family and friends all watching, but no one fighting but YOU. In the street, this never happens.

There is a certain element of “heart” that cannot be taught. You are either born with it, or you are not. Many people will never find out if they have “it”, because they will never be in a situation where they must use this “heart”. Until you've "been there", you really will never know.

In the streets, most guys who think they are “tough” are not. They come into our boxing gym all the time. They are always the guys who want to jump right into the ring to spar. They automatically assume that being tough on the street correlates to being tough in the ring. Within 1 round, these guys are literally jumping out of the ring. I was at the San Juan Center in Hartford, CT for almost 10 years. Our gym was in the ghetto. We had the roughest guys around coming to the gym. The bottom line is that street toughness only goes so far.

One of my favorites lines was, “Yeah man, I’ve got heart…” After one body shot to the liver, these guys had a complete change of heart. Not many people will continue to fight after being HURT. When you can “suck it up”, that is what I consider “tough”.

MOST grown men are never in a situation where they NEED to throw a punch and fight. They are never HURT and forced to respond by FIGHTING BACK. To me, this is what I consider being TOUGH. Most guys on the street who are fighting, are NOT getting into one-on-one FAIR fights. A street fight is usually started and ended by a sucker punch. It is very rare to see two guys square up and fight. It’s just like Vince Lombardi said, “Fatigue makes cowards of us all…” Although this is true, there are some individuals who refuse to give up. They continue to fight despite the pain and fatigue. This is a VERY rare quality that few individuals truly possess. Once again, most people will NEVER know if they have this quality. No self defense course will teach you... Until you've been there, it's pure speculation...

Another question you mentioned was: Is a kid who was raised in bad area of town always going to be tougher than a kid raised in the suburbs?

This is another great question. A kid from the ghetto is not naturally “tougher” but he is a product of his environment. Let’s face it, a kid who grows up in a rich neighborhood didn’t grow up fighting in the streets his entire life. Most PEOPLE are not willing to throw a punch. Even the guys who pump the iron in the gym… They all LOOK THE PART but once you get them ALONE, or you SINGLE THEM OUT from their crew, you will see their weakness shine through.

Consider most “big guys”… Sure, they may be 6’ and weigh 200 pounds… but the great majority of them never HAD to fight. Their size was enough to prevent most people from causing a problem. This does not mean however that they are any more willing to REACT and fight with HEART when a situation arises."
 
Old August 8th, 2004 #6
Sean Martin
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It doesn’t matter how big, strong or how much you know.

What makes a man tough is what he is willing to do to win. I have taught martial Arts and have trained some pro-fighters.

I have seen great Martial Artists that couldn't street fight.

If you don't want to hurt your opponent and your opponent is determined to kill you, who do you think will be victorious?

I have got more scars on my hands than my face but I got enough on my face to learn that to hesitate will get you hurt.

Don’t ever underestimate your opponent. Fight dirty and kick him when he is down. If you knock someone down go and jump on them.

Give me someone that will pick up a pop bottle and hit someone in the throat any day over someone with a 5th degree black belt in Judo that wants to put someone in a restraining hold so as not to hurt them.


Anybody can beat anybody, as long as you come at them fast and hard.

Bottom line is: Just how far are you willing to go to hurt your opponent.
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Old August 9th, 2004 #7
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I'm not a tough-guy nor would i want that title. I haven't been in a "real" fight for about three years, but i still know that if someone attacked me or verbally abused me that i would'nt backdown, i would definately stand up for myself.

Not too long ago, i was at the gym and i noticed this one guy looking at me, giving me dirty stares. He was pretty big bodybuider, a puffy steroid type.
Well after much stares, he'd finished up and walked past me to the locker room "What the fuck are you looking at" was his words to me. I just thought "fuck this" and followed him into the locker room, as soon as he seen me his face dropped and he apoligized before i had even said anything. He was just a bully who enjoyed intimidating people with his size, but in reality was just a coward.

It does'nt matter who/what you are, if you lift weights of if you box etc...
theres just naturally tough people out there, whites and even niggers!!!
 
Old August 9th, 2004 #8
Antiochus Epiphanes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DR ANTICHRIST
Mindset/experence/confidence/awarness. All four weave into each other.
best reply so far by a longshot
 
Old August 10th, 2004 #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antiochus Epiphanes
best reply so far by a longshot
A good right hand right to the face followed by a kick to the nuts and kneecap might also be "best"....eh brainiac?
 
Old August 12th, 2004 #10
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A bloke that has never been in a fight ?

This is very unusual.
 
Old August 13th, 2004 #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve B
A good right hand right to the face followed by a kick to the nuts and kneecap might also be "best"....eh brainiac?
smart guy doesnt get into fights. saves his powder for something useful. I have seen plenty of macho dudes esp racists putting down lots of money for lawyers and then sometimes still going up the river for unfair time because they were tough guys and some nigger punked them out and they just had to beat them down or brandish some iron. fuck that, let the nigger talk shit, walk away and do something useful with your lives. like fight the jew by organization and all that strategic crap you were talking about in the other threads eh steve?

I did all that karate shit, years and years, over ten years of practice three times a week, competition teaching all that shit, tkd shorin ryu judo aikido. Only thing I miss is aikido. Now I shoot idpa or ipsc for my martial arts thrills.

fuck macho, we need all hands on deck. learn to keep quiet, lay low, dont attract attention. blend in, dont be noticed. be a sleeper. maybe one day, you will decide to lay down some fire, if you've laid low maybe nobody will see you comin. if youve got a record and walk like a prize cock, you'll be picked out a mile away.

we need less tough guys and more sneaky, mean, disciplined, determined motherfuckers. guys who can organizethings come up with resources and move the chess pieces of society. we dont need ten or hundred badasses, we need about a thousand jesuit types, that are completely disciplined and determined and dont let any shit stand in their way including their own fucking egos.
 
Old August 13th, 2004 #12
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AS that is about as good of a statement as I have heard on this board.
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Old August 28th, 2004 #13
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What makes someone tough ?

Well having been in the struggle for over 28 years, I have seen toughness when the 'reds gave' it their all. So it has to be those who are weak in body, but in their spirit, give it their all.

I guess the best example was Dr. Joseph Goebbels, although a cripple, he went in to riots with the Stormtroopers in Berlin. Now THAT took courage, but that guy had it in spades !!!!!
 
Old September 4th, 2004 #14
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2% milk make you big tuffy.
Me know.
 
Old September 6th, 2004 #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean(doc)martin
It doesn?t matter how big, strong or how much you know.

What makes a man tough is what he is willing to do to win. I have taught martial Arts and have trained some pro-fighters....

If you don't want to hurt your opponent and your opponent is determined to kill you, who do you think will be victorious?

I have got more scars on my hands than my face but I got enough on my face to learn that to hesitate will get you hurt.

Don?t ever underestimate your opponent. Fight dirty and kick him when he is down. If you knock someone down go and jump on them.

Give me someone that will pick up a pop bottle and hit someone in the throat any day over someone with a 5th degree black belt in Judo that wants to put someone in a restraining hold so as not to hurt them.


Anybody can beat anybody, as long as you come at them fast and hard.

Bottom line is: Just how far are you willing to go to hurt your opponent.
Golly, Doc, you certainly are a man of many talents. I really should look upon you with reverence, as you now admit to being a trainer of professional fighters, as well. Is there anything you can't do, Doc? Is there any subject in the world your knowledge isn't absolute on, Doc?

I'm utterly in awe of you. I'll never have a harsh word for you again, preacher man.
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Old September 6th, 2004 #16
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well i just read all the posts on this thread and all of you sound very very tough and in different ways.
I'm not tough even remotely like men are. In fact I'm not even tough like some girls might be! But i believe in your cause (although i need to learn a bit more about it!) and I want to be helpful or useful and I hope it helps if i start out by saying that posts here sound not just "tough" but like people writing them sound very smart and intelligent.
 
Old September 6th, 2004 #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Intrepid
Golly, Doc, you certainly are a man of many talents. I really should look upon you with reverence, as you now admit to being a trainer of professional fighters, as well. Is there anything you can't do, Doc? Is there any subject in the world your knowledge isn't absolute on, Doc?

I'm utterly in awe of you. I'll never have a harsh word for you again, preacher man.
Don't you wish you was half as great as I am?
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