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May 27th, 2008 | #1 |
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Archeological Investigations of Treblinka
Hello,
I was told that, if you wanted a real unfettered debate about the holocaust, that VNN was the place to have it. I have been "debating," i.e. - totally destroying a certain Roberto Muehlenkamp , aka - Roberta, on the topix history forum http://www.topix.com/forum/history/T1V7A87T8PL8H7P8C but due to Roberta's censoring of my posts (she flagged 2 of them as "abusive" and they were deleted by the administrator), I needed to find another place to further destroy the little purse toting Portuguese puke. I might further add that Roberta publicly challenged me to a debate to take place at a cesspool called RODOH, which I did in fact accept - http://rodohforum.yuku.com/topic/6081 - but I was promptly banned by Roberta's boyfriend, the moderator nickterry. I should add also that both Roberta and little nicky are members of some freak show called - holocaust controversies, where this Roberta freak originally challenged me to debate the holocaust myth. So, that's my introduction. To further clarify what it is exactly that I have been tearing Roberta to shreds about, here is the last recap from the topix site: Before I go, let's do a simplified recap, something we can take to start over on the new site that Roberta can't censor: Her arguments are based on Grossmans alleged investigation: http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?topic=4194&forum=2 And the alleged Polish / jews investigation: http://vho.org/GB/Books/t/4.html This aerial photo of Treblinka: http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...r1944_edit.jpg (Remember her words:"I think that 1, 2 and 3 are in all probability pits for corpses which were used during the first phase of Treblinka and 4 is the "Lazarett") This article "proving" that there is "a huge concrete plate" that covers the entire "area of 20,000 square meters." : http://rodohforum.yuku.com/reply/92506/t/Gold... (Remember her words: No, Gerdes, I cannot show you a photo of the concrete plate underneath the memorial stones. I’ll try to find one (though the plate should be hard to see if there’s grass or so above it) And these photos: http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/lasttracks.html http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/photos.html This drawing: http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...neGrinders.jpg And the following photos with captions: Jews loading bodies onto a wagon, apparently in the Treblinka camp. http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5811_1_web.jpg Skeletal remains at the site of the Treblinka extermination camp. http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5807_1_web.jpg Skeletal remains at the site of the Treblinka extermination camp. http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5808_1_web.jpg Human skeletal remains in the Treblinka camp. http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5810_1_web.jpg Heaps of ashes on the grounds of the Treblinka camp. http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5810_1_web.jpg One of the enormous pits in the Treblinka camp into which the victims' corpses (and later, ashes) were thrown. http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5813_1_web.jpg A heap of ashes in the Treblinka camp. http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5814_1_web.jpg There was much more to the "debate" than this of course. There are 10 pages of this lying wench's keyboard diarrhea that I had the displeasure of having to sift through, but that is pretty much what she has presented as her "proof" to date. She has shown herself to be the utmost coward, so we shall see if she accepts the invitation to debate this issue on a real uncensored forum. Well Roberta, are you in? |
May 29th, 2008 | #2 |
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Hello again,
Well, the only thing we're waiting for now is to see if Roberta Dullenkamp has the courage to defend her incredible tall tale on a real, unfettered scientific forum. Here is my last post to her: http://www.topix.com/forum/history/T...T8PL8H7P8C/p16 Now Roberta, for the second time I have been accused of censoring on this forum (see your Berlinbuttbuddy’s post # 265). So to assure that that doesn’t happen again, we are moving your asswhooping to a forum where such nonsense can no longer occur. Even if you insist on posting here, I will only answer you on the new forum here: http://vnnforum.com/showthread.php... And please Roberta, notice the title of the forum: Archaeology and Anthropology. Do you know what that means Roberta? It means we are leaving your Alice in Wonderland fantasy world of magic glasses, seer stones and magic holocaust decoder rings and entering the world of science. Are you willing to hold your fantasy up to the scientific method Roberta? If so, I’ll talk to you soon in the new science forum Roberta. That is unless you’re too much of a coward to debate on a real, unfettered scientific forum. Remember the subjects we’re currently debating. The photos of the excavators / proving the existence of a single body, etc. Your so-called “proof” of “huge mass graves” in the receiving area. The list of “eyewitnesses” who say burnings took place at Treblinka before Himmler’s order. I will have an updated recap done shortly. Are you in Roberta? |
June 1st, 2008 | #3 |
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Well, my challenge to publicly debate Roberto Muellenkamp on an archaeology forum seems to have failed completely due to his cowardice and utter fear of holding his incredible tall tales up to the scientific method. Please notice that none of his fellow funnyboy freaks over at holocaust controversies has the courage to defend their delusions here either. Typical.
Oh well. What I'll do is just keep posting all my updates of the "debate" on this forum, so I can keep a record of and show everyone what a total fraud Roberta is and just what a complete lack of any tangible physical evidence there is for the Treblinka holohoax. BTW, this is what Roberta had to say when I challenged her to debate on VNN forum: "VNN consists of Nazi fucks like yourself, Gerdes. I see you don’t feel comfortable debating out in the open and need the company of your buddies to give you moral support... Historiography is a science, if you ask me. Historiography’s approach to evidence is a scientific approach, which consists in working towards a conclusion by looking at all the evidence available and seeing how it fits together. What you call "science", on the other hand, has nothing whatsoever to do with science. It consists in distortion, misrepresentation and attempts to reduce the record of evidence to the category that you figure is hardest for your opponent to obtain – i.e. physical evidence – in order to push through conclusions pre-ordained by your ideological articles of faith." You can just sense her utter fear of debating the Treblinka holohoax on a forum devoted to archeology and the scientific method, can't you? I'll keep you all informed. |
June 2nd, 2008 | #4 |
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Well, it looks like Roberta Muehlenkamp has rested her case. Here is all the "physical evidence" that she has entered to date, and some of my commentary.
Please note that this freak pretends to be one of "the worlds foremost experts" on Treblinka, and this is the best she can do when challenged to present the physical evidence of her claim that the Treblinka holocaust really did happen. I will add a more consice recap shortly, but the following will provide the information needed to see in what context the filthy lying bitch presented her "evidence." #22: Q - Can you provide photographic proof of this alleged "area of 20,000 square meters covered by human remains and human remains to a depth of 7.5 meters?" A - “There are photographs of the area, some of which you can see under: http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/lasttracks.html #40: Roberta: “The grave digging is well-documented in Polish sources. To what extent it obliterated the Treblinka mass graves we don’t know.” Q - If it was so well documented, then would you please show us the photos of this alleged documentation? A - “look at some photographs related to the "Treblinka Gold Rush" that are included in a Polish newspaper article about this phenomenon: http://rodohforum.yuku.com/reply/925...ml#reply-92506 #45: Roberta: “Not that it would matter a damn thing if I could not, but a photograph available under: http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5813_1_web.jpg is captioned as showing "One of the enormous pits in the Treblinka camp into which the victims' corpses (and later, ashes) were thrown." #115: Roberta: “As to what I called "plugs" in the calculations I once made, here’s a picture of what I meant by that. It is a drawing by David Olére, not from Treblinka but from Auschwitz-Birkenau, but one can assume that this was the bone-crushing method also applied at Treblinka: http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...neGrinders.jpg #152: Roberta: “Roberto never claimed that nobody has been able to locate "so much as a single tooth" at Treblinka. On the contrary, I have referred to Vassili Grossman’s mention of having seen teeth in the soil of Treblinka when he visited the place. And I have referred to a Polish newspaper article translated under: http://rodohforum.yuku.com/reply/925...ml#reply-92506 which mentions teeth found by robbery diggers.” (Please note that that “evidence” has been presented to “prove” both the “grave diggers obliterated the traces of the “huge mass graves” and that teeth have been found at Treblinka.) #156: Roberta: “In the south-western part of the camp, roughly corresponding to the area of the "receiving camp" (the Treblinka extermination camp consisted of 3 areas: the "the living camp" in the northwest, the "receiving camp" in the southwest and the "death camp" in the south and south-east, the latter being the sector where the gas chambers, mass graves and incineration grids were located), there are four shapes of ground scarring I circled and marked as 1, 2, 3 and 4 on the September 1944 photograph: (Unmarked): http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bmap8.jpg (Marked): http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...r1944_edit.jpg Roberta: "I think that 1, 2 and 3 are in all probability pits for corpses which were used during the first phase of Treblinka and 4 is the "Lazarett,” #170: Q - Can you show us a single ground or aerial photograph in which the "huge mass graves" and the "huge furnace pits" can be seen? Roberta: A – “Of the furnace pits none that I know, which is not surprising as photographing in the camp was forbidden. Deputy commander Kurt Franz photographed nevertheless and kept an album, from which he had torn out some pictures by the time he was arrested in 1959; these may have shown interesting things like furnace pits, incineration grids and so. But he kept the photos of the excavators, which are shown under: http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/excavators2.html There is also one photo, kept in the German Federal Archives under nº No. 183-F0918-0201-011 and online under: http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/photos.html that shows one corner of one of the mass graves.” Q - Can you provide a single photo that proves the existence of these alleged huge graves and pits? Roberta: A – “No. But I can provide eyewitness testimonies,” |
June 3rd, 2008 | #5 |
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Here is the rest of the "physical evidence" that Roberta Muehlenkamp presented before resting her case.
#176: Alleged photographs from Treblinka: 1 - Jews loading bodies onto a wagon, apparently in the Treblinka camp: http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5811_1_web.jpg 2 - Skeletal remains at the site of the Treblinka extermination camp: http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5808_1_web.jpg 3 - Heaps of ashes on the grounds of the Treblinka camp: http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5809_1_web.jpg #179: Q – Can you show us where just one tooth out of your alleged 24 to 96 million teeth has been located in your "area of 20,000 square meters covered by human remains and human remains to a depth of 7.5 meters?" Roberta: A – “Vassili Grossman, as quoted under: http://rodohforum.yuku.com/reply/955...ml#reply-95592 "The earth is throwing out crushed bones, teeth, clothes, papers." From the Polish newspaper article translated under: http://rodohforum.yuku.com/reply/925...ml#reply-92506 “Grave robbers from Wólka Okrąglik and neighboring villages pose for a photo together with militiamen who caught them red-handed. In the peasant's pockets there were golden rings and teeth of Jews… "With the grave robbers we found golden rings, crowns and porcelain teeth with gold and silver inlays." * Please note: See more on Grossman here: http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?topic=4194&forum=2 #252 & 253: Roberta: “Eyewitnesses mentioning pits in the reception area – let’s start with Abraham Krzepicki and Jankiel Wiernik: http://rodohforum.yuku.com/reply/384...ml#reply-38414 #324: Q - And where are the “gas chambers?” Roberta: A – “While there is no reason for excavator-freak Franz to have photographed the gas chambers, he seems to have caught the gas chamber building on one of his photographs. This photograph is shown by Alex Bay under: http://www.holocaust-history.org/Tre...Figure36.shtml #392: An open mass grave in Treblinka in 1943 (34 on the map). In 1943 all the mass graves were reopened and the bodies cremated on huge roasts. Arad, Yitzhak; The Pictorial History of the Holocaust, p. 299 http://holocaust-info.dk/treblinka/i...mass_grave.htm Roberta’s analysis: “Shapes pointed out look human. They are neither wooden planks not tarpaulin sheets.” http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...grave_edit.jpg And that's it folks, that was all the "physical evidence" that Roberta Muehlenkamp was able to present which she claims "proves" the Treblinka holohoax. I will add a more concise recap of her "evidence" real soon. |
June 4th, 2008 | #6 |
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In summarizing my “debate” with Roberto Muehlenkamp, we can start with my foundational question to her:
“Roberta, can you locate the alleged “huge mass graves” of Treblinka on this Sept., 1944 aerial map of Treblinka?” http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bmap8.jpg After initially claiming, repeatedly, that it would be impossible to do so, Roberta then said that, yes, after further analysis, she could indeed locate some of the alleged “huge mass graves” of Treblinka on said aerial photo and presented the following analysis as “proof:” http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...r1944_edit.jpg (Remember her own words: “I think that 1, 2 and 3 are in all probability pits for corpses which were used during the first phase of Treblinka and 4 is the "Lazarett.") Please note: She also presented the following “eyewitness testimony” of Abraham Krzepicki and Jankiel Wiernik which she claims “proves” the accuracy of her analysis: http://rodohforum.yuku.com/reply/384...ml#reply-38414 Then, when asked if she could provide any physical evidence of the alleged Treblinka holocaust, she presented as “proof” these photos, allegedly taken by the 1946 Polish / jewish / communist investigation team, which she claims discovered "an area of 20,000 square meters covered by human remains and human remains to a depth of 7.5 meters," at the site: http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/lasttracks.html http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/photos.html Please note: You can read about the Treblinka investigation mentioned above here: http://vho.org/GB/Books/t/4.html She also emphatically claimed that the following photographs were also taken at Treblinka and even provided us with their captions: 1 - Jews loading bodies onto a wagon, apparently in the Treblinka camp: http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5811_1_web.jpg 2 - Skeletal remains at the site of the Treblinka extermination camp: http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5808_1_web.jpg 3 - One of the enormous pits in the Treblinka camp into which the victims' corpses (and later, ashes) were thrown. http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5813_1_web.jpg She also claimed that the existence of at least one “huge mass grave” of Treblinka has been proven and presented the following photograph as her “proof:” An open mass grave in Treblinka in 1943. Arad, Yitzhak; The Pictorial History of the Holocaust, p. 299 http://holocaust-info.dk/treblinka/i...mass_grave.htm And she again presented her analysis of this alleged “physical evidence:” http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...grave_edit.jpg (Remember her own words: “Shapes pointed out look human. They are neither wooden planks not tarpaulin sheets.”) She then presented the following photograph of the alleged “homicidal gas chambers” of Treblinka as her “proof” of its existence: http://www.holocaust-history.org/Tre...Figure36.shtml Then, when asked if the alleged “huge mass graves” of Treblinka could be located today, she said that they could not because “grave robbers” had obliterated all traces of them in their search for “jewish gold” and presented the following “evidence” for this alleged “Treblinka Gold Rush” and resultant obliteration of said graves: http://rodohforum.yuku.com/reply/925...ml#reply-92506 Then, when asked if she could prove the existence of so much as a single tooth found at Treblinka, she claimed that the above link also “proves” that teeth were found at the site and offered the following quote from said link as “proof” of this: “In the peasant's pockets there were golden rings and teeth of Jews… With the grave robbers we found golden rings, crowns and porcelain teeth with gold and silver inlays." She then went on to add that the following quote from Vassili Grossman’s report of his alleged investigation offers additional “proof” that teeth were reportedly seen at Treblinka: "The earth is throwing out crushed bones, teeth, clothes, papers." Please note: You can read about Grossman’s alleged investigation here: http://rodohforum.yuku.com/reply/955...ml#reply-95592 And here: http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?topic=4194&forum=2 Please note: Her claim that teeth were found at Treblinka totally contradicts her earlier claim that the Germans had obliterated the tens of millions of teeth by crushing them into “tooth meal” with “plugs,” which she claimed was done / looked like this: http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...neGrinders.jpg However, when asked why no one has ever been able to locate even one of the alleged “huge mass graves” of Treblinka or even an iota of the remains of the alleged millions of pounds of crushed bone, tens of millions of teeth, tens of thousands of bullets and shell casings or so much as a single corpse which she claims were left in the bottom of the “huge mass graves” in a “wax-fat transformation,” she claims the reason is because there is a “20,000 square meter concrete plate” which covers the entire alleged “huge mass graves” area and all the alleged physical evidence and presented this photo as “proof:” http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5703_1_web.jpg And that’s it folks! Seriously, that’s all the alleged physical evidence that the freaky little bitch was able to present as "proof" of the Treblinka holocaust! And please do take the time to read the alleged “eyewitness and documentary evidence” that I included at Roberta’s insistence. Seriously, she actually claims that that nonsense actually substantiates the “physical evidence” she presented! I will add one more very concise recap of all the "physical evidence" that she presented in my next post. |
June 5th, 2008 | #7 |
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So here it is again folks, a more concise recap of all the “physical evidence” for the alleged Treblinka holocaust that could be produce by the creepy little self proclaimed “authority” on Treblinka - Roberto Muehlenkamp:
#1 – Roberta’s analysis of the Sept. 1944 aerial photo of Treblinka: http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...r1944_edit.jpg (Again, in her own words: “I think that 1, 2 and 3 are in all probability pits for corpses which were used during the first phase of Treblinka and 4 is the "Lazarett.") #2 – This montage of photos: http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/lasttracks.html #3 – This montage of photos: http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/photos.html And these individual photos, which she also provided captions for: #4 – “Jews loading bodies onto a wagon, “apparently” in the Treblinka camp:” http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5811_1_web.jpg #5 – “Skeletal remains at the site of the Treblinka extermination camp:” http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5808_1_web.jpg #6 - "One of the enormous pits in the Treblinka camp into which the victims' corpses (and later, ashes) were thrown." http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5813_1_web.jpg #7 – “Grave robbers from Wólka Okr¹glik and neighboring villages pose for a photo together with militiamen who caught them red-handed. In the peasant's pockets there were golden rings and teeth of Jews. At their feet lie skulls and limb bones of those gassed.” http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...GoldRush_2.jpg And that is it folks. That is the best the bitch could do. I will finish the final summation of this “debate” with Roberta’s own words: "Actually I have entered all the physical evidence to the Treblinka mass killings that I’m aware of… as to my having not been able to "prove the existence" of a single mass grave… Roberta doesn’t have to prove the existence of one specific single anything… proof of mass murder at Treblinka can be provided without identifying any specific mass grave… I have, through the eyewitness, documentary and physical evidence I have introduced, provided conclusive proof of the mass murder at Treblinka, and hence of whatever amounts of crushed bones, bullets, shell casings or teeth this entails… you can prove the whole independently of whether you can identify a specific part or aspect of the whole, and proof of that specific part or aspect, even if that specific part or aspect is not identified in all its details, logically follows from proof of the whole... reasonable assumptions and conclusions are part of the art and science of historiography… an art that includes reasonably accounting for subjective individual perceptions… because there are certain differences between eyewitnesses in perception and recollection of certain details or features of an event or phenomenon… these photos need not show any dead bodies in order to have a certain relevance as evidence… I can actually claim to have proved, by providing evidence specifically describing it." Please note that all the "evedence" presented by this Roberta freak to date has allegedly been that which "proves" the Treblinka holohoax. What I will do next is break down her "evidence" further into the following categories: 1 - Teeth 2 - Bullets & shell casings 3 - Cremated / crushed bones 4 - Unburned corpses in a "wax-fat transformation" 5 - "Huge mass graves" |
June 9th, 2008 | #8 | ||||||||||||||
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Ah, and what is it that you call "truth"? Is it facts supported by evidence, or is it whatever unsupported nonsense you’d like to believe in? Quote:
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June 5th, 2008 | #9 | |||||||
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The eyewitness evidence I provided he feebly tried to discredit, then chose to simply ignore it. The documentary evidence I provided he didn’t even dare to address. Therefore, and although he cannot show any rules or standards of criminal investigation and/or historical research whereby physical evidence is the only evidence that matters, he eventually went back to yelling for physical evidence and physical evidence alone. And what is more: he only accepts photographs as documentation of physical evidence, even though he has not been able to explain why written site investigation reports issued by criminal investigators, such as I quoted from several times throughout this discussion, should not be seen as sufficient documentation of physical evidence for forensic or historical purposes, whether or not they are illustrated by photographs. In short, Gerdes has shown to be a charlatan who has no arguments against the evidence provided by his opponent (not to mention the utter absence of any evidence supporting his “transit camp” theory) and is therefore reduced to toting straw-men and demanding evidence the relevance, and even the suitability to provide proof of the events in question by itself, he is not able to demonstrate. Quote:
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RODOH stands for "Real Open Debate on the Holocaust", and the forum’s owner, a "Revisionist" by the name of Scott Smith, means every word of it. Therefore, while moderators may intervene on occasion to enforce forum rules against foul language and other nasty behavior, no one is censored on RODOH on account of his or her arguments. Readers may have noted Gerdes apparent obsession with effeminateness (he accuses his opponent of being effeminate by calling him the female version of his name) and homosexuality (he calls someone his opponent’s “boyfriend”). I don’t know the reason for this obsession, but chances are that Gerdes is projecting a problem of his own here, effeminate and homosexual tendencies he sees in himself but doesn’t want to admit to. That would be a likely explanation for a grown man’s using a variety of insults that I last used when I was in grade school. Quote:
The challenge was part of an article that can be accessed under http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...eg-gerdes.html , where I first exposed Gerdes’ ignorance and lack of intelligence – thereby driving the poor fellow carpet-biting mad, of course. Quote:
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December 21st, 2008 | #10 | |
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There was also falsification of documents after the war. If what people say is dubious, then you have to base your conclusions on physical evidence.
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Anti-Nazi is a codeword for anti-White. www.national-socialist-worldview.blogspot.com www.noncounterproductive.blogspot.com www.williamlutherpierce.blogspot.com Last edited by Hadding; December 21st, 2008 at 02:09 PM. |
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June 5th, 2008 | #11 | |||||||||||||||||
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I have made my case by providing evidence of various categories, all of which points to Treblinka having been an extermination camp where hundreds of thousands were killed. What has Gerdes, on the other hand, provided by way of evidence pointing in the direction of his "transit camp" theory? I’ll tell you, folks: nothing. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Deafening silence. Quote:
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Exact quote and link to where I’m supposed to have written that, please. Or humbly admit that you lied once again. Quote:
First of all, the description of the physical evidence in the Polish site investigation reports is quite telling, as I have explained in my article «Polish investigations of the Treblinka killing site were a complete failure …» under http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...treblinka.html . And second, historical events like the Treblinka mass murder can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt without assessing the physical evidence, on hand of documentary and eyewitness evidence alone. West German criminal justice authorities have done just that at many an NS murder trial, and historians do it all the time. >I will add a more consice recap shortly, but the following will provide the information needed to >see in what context the filthy lying bitch presented her "evidence." Actually Gerdes hasn’t yet been able to demonstrate a single lie of mine, whereas I have caught him in a couple dozen lies throughout the Topix discussion (conservative estimate). And I wouldn’t be surprised if the following "recap" contained some more lies. Quote:
From my post # 22 under http://www.topix.com/forum/history/T...8H7P8C/p2#c22: Quote:
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When will you stop running away from my questions, Mr. Gerdes? |
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June 9th, 2008 | #12 | |||||||||||||||||||||||
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a) the Polish site investigation reports of 13 November and 29 December 1945 and b) the documentary and eyewitness evidence listed in my Topix post # 482 under http://www.topix.com/forum/history/T...H7P8C/p23#c482 . Quote:
Of course I have no problem with your showing again and again what a liar you are. Keep digging yourself in, Gerdes. Quote:
Let’s look at the whole of what I wrote, highlighting the parts that you picked out. In post # 18: Quote:
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In post # 21: Quote:
This is called quote-mining, Gerdes, leaving out a part of a quote to give it another meaning than it actually has. It’s a form of lying. But then, Gerdes starts lying as soon as he hits the keyboard, right? Quote:
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Why are you not able to debate without lying through your teeth by quote-mining and straw-man misrepresentations of your opponent’s arguments, Gerdes? Is it because you cannot handle what your opponent actually wrote, as opposed what you would like him to have written? It would seem so. Quote:
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It would seem so. Quote:
Show me where, Gerdes. If you can’t, admit that you lied again. Quote:
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It would seem so. But OK, if you’d rather discuss the mass graves in the "reception camp" sector, there’s this question you have been often asked but never even attempted to answer: What, if not mass graves in an area where at least two eyewitnesses mentioned the presence of mass graves, could the ground-scarring shapes I pointed out possibly have been, namely what that would be compatible with your "transit camp" theory? When will you stop running away from this question, Gerdes? Quote:
«… it doesn’t matter a damn thing whether any physical traces of the "Lazarett" could be identified» "It doesn’t matter a damn thing whether it could" does not mean "it cannot", of course. Get a brain, Gerdes. Quote:
I’ll highlight the parts you left out: Quote:
What part of the word "relevance" do you not understand? Quote:
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It would seem so. I don’t know of photos from the outside of any of the phases of the camp’s operation, and I doubt you can explain why there should necessarily be any. But I know of photographs from the inside, taken in violation of instructions received by deputy commander Kurt Franz. They are among the photos shown under http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/photos.html , and the link http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/excavators2.html shows all of Franz's excavator photos. As you are such a photo-freak, here are two questions regarding these photographs: Regarding the photo captioned «MASS GRAVE If Treblinka, the boards were added to the bodies in course of a test burning. Usually the victims were buried in mass graves, later cremated on roasts. Photo: Bundesarchiv No. 183-F0918-0201-011» the question is: what, if not a corner of one mass grave where the bodies have been covered with boards and what looks like tarpaulin sheets, do you think this photograph shows? Regarding the excavator photos under http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/excavators2.html, the question (asked several times already and always studiously avoided by Gerdes) is the following: What would these excavators have been doing in what you claim was a "transit camp"? Answer the questions, Gerdes! Quote:
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Is this just an attempt to throw more sand into the eyes of the suckers you apparently expect your "White" buddies to be, Gerdes? Quote:
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June 5th, 2008 | #13 | |||||||||||
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Let’s see if Gerdes is better able to control his compulsion to lie on this forum. Quote:
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From the report of 13.11.1945: Quote:
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>This aerial photo of Treblinka: >http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...r1944_edit.jpg >(Remember her words:"I think that 1, 2 and 3 are in all probability pits for corpses which were >used during the first phase of Treblinka and 4 is the "Lazarett") Showing of this commented photograph, as Gerdes fails to mention, was usually accompanied by my question what – if not mass graves in a section of the camp where eyewitnesses described mass graves – the ground-scarring shapes I pointed out could possibly have been. Gerdes was requested to provide a plausible alternative explanation, one that would be compatible with his "transit camp" theory. I’m still waiting for this explanation. I’m also still waiting for Gerdes explanation what the excavators on the photos shown under http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/excavators2.html are supposed to have been doing in a "transit camp". These are just two of the questions that Gerdes was asked several times but never even tried to answer. Quote:
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Confirming this assumption there is the following information from Scrapbookpages, available under http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Poland...eblinka05.html and quoted in my Topix post # 383 under http://www.topix.com/forum/history/T...H7P8C/p19#c383 : Quote:
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More importantly, there was the documentary and eyewitness evidence listed in my Topix post # 482 under http://www.topix.com/forum/history/T...H7P8C/p23#c482 , with links to the posts or articles where the respective documents or testimonies are quoted or referred to. The documentary evidence Gerdes studiously avoided. The eyewitness evidence he feebly tried to discredit, but when that failed he also ignored it and went back to his original tactic of yelling for physical evidence and physical evidence alone – and that although documentation of the physical evidence had been provided. Quote:
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June 5th, 2008 | #14 | ||||
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Gerdes: Quote:
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It should be obvious who of us two is a coward. |
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June 5th, 2008 | #15 | ||||
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Gerdes is retreating to the "Archeology and Anthropology" section of a "White" forum because he figures that he can there invoke "science" to dismiss all evidence other than archeological/anthropological evidence. Is that the point you’re trying to make, Gerdes? If so, you’re really a funny bone. Are we asked to believe that archeologists or anthropologists ignore all evidence other than the "scientific" evidence they find under ground or in human remains? That archeologists reconstructing, say, life in Roman Pompeji and its destruction by the Vesuvius shunned all chronicles and other written records from Roman times and drew their conclusions exclusively on the basis of what they found on site? That they knew nothing about Roman culture and history from written records and learned it all from the physical traces that they found while excavating? If archeologists had proceeded in this manner, looking only at the physical evidence and ignoring all other sources of evidence, their work would not have been a scientific undertaking. It would have been highly unscientific guesswork. What made the investigations of Pompeji scientific was that archeologists matched what they found on site with what they knew from written records about Roman culture and everyday life in a Roman city, and from the writings of Roman chroniclers about the destruction of Pompeji by volcanic ash from the Vesuvius. Looking at all evidence one can get hold of, leaving none out and trying to reach a conclusion that duly takes all evidence into account – that’s scientific, Gerdes. Restricting the record of evidence to one category which, by its very nature, cannot possibly be expected to allow for reconstructing a historical event on its own, as you are trying to do in limiting the Treblinka evidence your are willing to look at to physical evidence (and moreover the documentation of that evidence to photographs) is not scientific, as I already pointed out in one of my above-mentioned Topix posts. It is highly unscientific charlatanry. Quote:
a) What exactly he means by "tangible" physical evidence, b) Why the physical evidence I have provided is not whatever it is he calls "tangible" physical evidence, and c) Why, according to what rules and standards other than his irrelevant own, "tangible" physical evidence is the only evidence that can be used to prove the occurrence of a certain event, or why the presentation and assessment of such evidence is an indispensable requirement of proof. Any attentive reader with brains inside his or her skull will soon realize that all Gerdes has managed to do is make a fool of himself with pointless "show me" requests, the relevance of which he cannot explain, and his ignoring or unreasonably dismissing the evidence that has been shown to him. Quote:
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September 22nd, 2008 | #16 |
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Check this out
Muley, go here and look at the pretty little pictures then go buy a GPR [they are quite inexpensive nowadays] and then go see whats under those green spots. Try to remember the grass is always greener over the septic tank.
Then complete the challenge and collect your money. If I were to challenge you to a footrace between New York and Miami via D.C. - would you ask why I didn't have a via point at Philadelphia? You really look like an idiot. Sorry, Mr. Gerdes, for sticking my kikus nosikus into your thread, but I just couldn't help it. |
June 5th, 2008 | #17 | |||||||||||||||
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Several times I asked Gerdes a question, which is still standing: What, if not mass graves, are the ground-scarring shapes I pointed out on the September 1944 photograph supposed to have been? There’s a good reason for Gerdes having run away from this question throughout our discussion, of course. He cannot provide anything like a plausible explanation for why the operation of a shitty little "transit camp" should have left behind this ground scarring, the likeliest explanation for which is that it corresponds to mass graves in the Treblinka "reception" area, as described by Abraham Krzepicki and Jankiel Wiernik. Quote:
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Yet Gerdes seems to be so afraid of this photograph that he baselessly calls into question its authenticity with the inevitable "alleged" baloney. Poor Gerdes. Quote:
Actually the most interesting object on that photograph is the excavator. Gerdes hasn’t yet stopped running away from my question what excavators would have been doing in what he claims was just a "transit camp". Quote:
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The concrete plate supporting the present-day memorial, about the area of which I don’t remember having made a definite statement, was mentioned, IIRC, as an obstacle to carrying out an archeological investigation at Treblinka like was carried out at Belzec by Prof. Kola in 1997-1999. In order to try identifying the Treblinka mass graves, the memorial and the concrete plate it rests on would first have to be removed. Shall we count this as Gerdes’ lie # 6, folks? Nah, let’s be generous. We can afford it as more obvious lies will follow. Quote:
As Gerdes well knows that I have never stated a photograph to be proof of anything in and by itself, I’ll count this claim as his lie # 6. Quote:
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Just in case there might be some more critical people among our audience, Gerdes avoided providing a link where such readers can find the eyewitness and documentary evidence I provided and decide for themselves if what Gerdes calls "nonsense" is not actually sufficient evidence to prove the mass murder at Treblinka even without an assessment of the physical evidence. In my post # 482 under http://www.topix.com/forum/history/T...H7P8C/p23#c482, readers can find a list of the documentary and eyewitness evidence that Gerdes tried but failed to handle or didn’t even dare to address, with links to posts and articles quoting or referring to that evidence. Please note that Gerdes, contradicting his previous baseless attempt to limit the record of evidence to physical evidence, seems to be now signaling that he considers eyewitness and documentary evidence relevant. And he is also expressing his uneasiness about that evidence. Why else would he dispute the authenticity of the evidence in question by calling it "alleged" evidence? Looks like Gerdes is well aware that what he lamely calls "nonsense" is not nearly as nonsensical as he would like it to be. |
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June 10th, 2008 | #18 | ||||
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Besides, that’s one of the less serious misrepresentations or omissions I have pointed out. There are others you tried over and over again on Topix and here as well, they were pointed out every time and yet you kept repeating them. Case in point: the "96 million teeth" straw-man, which corresponds to the straw-man about Grossman’s "3 million" overestimate which you even said you would drop. And then there are the quote-mining exercises I pointed out in post # 26, leaving out important parts of my statements when quoting them. That’s also lying. Face it, Gerdes, you are a compulsive liar. It’s stronger than you. Better seek help. Quote:
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If you want to include something in the next one of your mendacious "recaps", include the following (emphases added): Quote:
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June 10th, 2008 | #19 |
Mene, Mene, Tekel Upharsin
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Is there a reason you all don't like img tags for your pics? You just need to push the little "insert image" button when entering the pic's address ... a reader can't keep opening images for that many pictures.
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June 13th, 2008 | #20 | ||||||||
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Or are you trying to convince your "White" buddies that you’re winning this, hoping they will be dumb enough to fall for your hollow bragging? Quote:
The name of the photographer can be provided. On pages 82/83 of their Treblinka book, Mattogno & Graf write the following (emphasis mine): Quote:
1. Skeletal remains at the site of the Treblinka extermination camp. http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5807_1_web.jpg 2. Skeletal remains at the site of the Treblinka extermination camp. http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5808_1_web.jpg 3. Human skeletal remains in the Treblinka camp. http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5810_1_web.jpg 4. Heaps of ashes on the grounds of the Treblinka camp. http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5809_1_web.jpg 5. One of the enormous pits in the Treblinka camp into which the victims' corpses (and later, ashes) were thrown. http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5813_1_web.jpg 6. A heap of ashes in the Treblinka camp. http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5814_1_web.jpg , photographs 2 and 4 show the name of the photographer: "J. Byck, Warszawa", who is obviously identical with the "Jacob Byk" mentioned by Mattogno & Graf. This means that the photographs were taken during the site inspection/investigation carried out between 6 November and 13 November 1945. Photographer Byk/Byck seems to have been part of the investigation team headed by Examining Judge Zdzislaw Lukaszkiewicz, and all above photographs are from the same collection (Ghetto Fighters Museum), so it seems reasonable to assume that photographs 1, 3, 5 and 6 were taken by Mr. Byk/Byck as well. The exact date of the photographs I don’t know, but it must have been between 6 November and 13 November 1945. The collection of photographs under http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/lasttracks.html includes two photos: http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp40.jpg http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp39.jpg that show exactly the same as the above numbers 4 and 6 and were thus obviously taken by the same photographer, with the same camera and at the same time. Of the other photos under http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/lasttracks.html , these three: 7. http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp41.jpg 8. http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp43.jpg 9. http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp42.jpg look to my like they were taken with the same camera, so I would attribute them to Mr. Byk/Byck and the period between 6 and 13 November 1945 as well. This photograph: 10. http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp35.jpg may also be from the same source, but it is equally possible that it was taken during the Soviet investigation preceding the Polish one. This photograph: 11. http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp44.jpg is obviously from the Soviet investigation, as captioned. The remaining photographs 12. http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp46.jpg 13. http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp47.jpg 14. http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp48.jpg 15. http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp49.jpg 16. http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp50.jpg 17. http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp51.jpg look like they have been taken with a camera other than that of Mr. Byk/Byck. As the investigators in the last photo look like civilians rather than Red Army soldiers, however, it is possible that these photos are related to a Polish site inspection/investigation other than the one headed by judge Lukaszkiewicz, maybe the inspection/investigation involving Mr. Karol Ogrodowczyk from Warsaw that is mentioned in the Polish newspaper article translated into English under http://rodohforum.yuku.com/topic/588...Treblinka.html . This photo of skulls on the Treblinka site: 18. http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...GoldRush_3.jpg , which is included in that newspaper article, may be related to the Ogrodowczyk inspection/investigation as well. On the other hand, this photo: 19. http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...GoldRush_2.jpg shows the result of a Polish militia action against robbery diggers and must have been part of the corresponding militia report. In my translation of the Polish newspaper article about the "Gold Rush in Treblinka", this photo is addressed in some detail: Quote:
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