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Old September 16th, 2020 #1
Nikola Bijeliti
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Default Proxima Centauri Colonizing Mission

Here's an interesting video I found about a plan for a mission to colonize the Alpha Centauri system:


It would be about a 400 year trip one way. The technical aspects are interesting, but the video mentions nothing of the human aspect. How are multiple generations of humans going to keep themselves busy and not go insane being trapped inside a spacecraft for that long? Or will the inhabitants be frozen and thawed out when they get there?

At the end of the video it shows the crew returning to earth after founding the colony, while the colonists remain. That is totally insane. Assuming that the crew is frozen during both journeys, it would be 800 years later when they returned to earth. Earth wouldn't even be recognizable to them by then. Could you imagine people from 1200 being thawed out and brought back to life today? They would not find the earth today a hospitable place to live.
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Old September 17th, 2020 #2
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Default Kerbal Space Program has some pretty oddball stuff

I vote for naming planet Proxima B Priplanus.

For you younger crowd, Priplanus was the name the Robinson family gave the planet they were living on in Season 1 of Lost In Space after they became lost during their mission to colonize the Alpha Centauri system.

A slow-moving generational ship heading for a nearby star probably wouldn't be practical in either cost or resources. A nuclear fusion rocket could theoretically propel a starship up to about ten percent of light speed. Even then it would take about 40 years to reach Proxima Centauri at 4.3 light-years away. Then the ship would have to slow down before reaching it, adding to the travel time. This would still be a reasonable flight time compared to 400 years. The crew would probably need to be frozen in suspended animation just like on Lost In Space, and we haven't perfected that kind of technology yet.

Barring the invention of some type of warp drive, it's probably the best we can do to make interstellar travel a reality. Sadly, I don't think I will live long enough to see it. Two interesting studies were made in the 1960s and 70s regarding this--NASA's Project Orion, which theorized exploding nuclear bombs behind a spacecraft to push it to a respectable fraction of light speed, and the British Interplanetary Society's Project Daedalus, which has a fusion-powered probe reaching Barnard's Star, about 6 light-years away, within 50 years.The probe would not slow down, but it would release several sub-probes to investigate any planets found in the system. This is probably the most realistic possibility with our current science, but a functional fusion rocket has yet to be developed.
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Old September 19th, 2020 #3
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Well, there's a good use of time. Planning to colonise a planet (assuming Proxima Centauri b is intended, since Proxima Centauri is a star) that we can't get to or even observe directly and even if we could get there it would take several lifetimes to complete the journey.
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Old September 19th, 2020 #4
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Originally Posted by joeylowsac View Post
Well, there's a good use of time. Planning to colonise a planet (assuming Proxima Centauri b is intended, since Proxima Centauri is a star) that we can't get to or even observe directly and even if we could get there it would take several lifetimes to complete the journey.
But how would you keep busy the generations that would live and die on the journey without ever setting foot on any planet? Wouldn't it be better to wait until technology advances to the point where it can be done within a single lifespan?
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Old September 20th, 2020 #5
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Originally Posted by Ray Allan View Post
I vote for naming planet Proxima B Priplanus.

For you younger crowd, Priplanus was the name the Robinson family gave the planet they were living on in Season 1 of Lost In Space after they became lost during their mission to colonize the Alpha Centauri system.

A slow-moving generational ship heading for a nearby star probably wouldn't be practical in either cost or resources. A nuclear fusion rocket could theoretically propel a starship up to about ten percent of light speed. Even then it would take about 40 years to reach Proxima Centauri at 4.3 light-years away. Then the ship would have to slow down before reaching it, adding to the travel time. This would still be a reasonable flight time compared to 400 years. The crew would probably need to be frozen in suspended animation just like on Lost In Space, and we haven't perfected that kind of technology yet.

Barring the invention of some type of warp drive, it's probably the best we can do to make interstellar travel a reality. Sadly, I don't think I will live long enough to see it. Two interesting studies were made in the 1960s and 70s regarding this--NASA's Project Orion, which theorized exploding nuclear bombs behind a spacecraft to push it to a respectable fraction of light speed, and the British Interplanetary Society's Project Daedalus, which has a fusion-powered probe reaching Barnard's Star, about 6 light-years away, within 50 years.The probe would not slow down, but it would release several sub-probes to investigate any planets found in the system. This is probably the most realistic possibility with our current science, but a functional fusion rocket has yet to be developed.

As long as some faggoty old Jew doesn't sneak aboard before the launch and throw off the guidance system, the mission should be a success...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/x-ray_...one/6864053758
 
Old September 20th, 2020 #6
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Originally Posted by Kosher Clown View Post
As long as some faggoty old Jew doesn't sneak aboard before the launch and throw off the guidance system, the mission should be a success...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/x-ray_...one/6864053758
As far as I know, Jonathan Harris wasn't homosexual. He was married and had a son, but who knows?

Many younger viewers think his Dr. Smith character was, though. I don't agree, Smith was just a clown and a buffoon. He did appear to like women in several different episodes where there were female guest actors.
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Old September 21st, 2020 #7
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Originally Posted by Ray Allan View Post
I vote for naming planet Proxima B Priplanus.

For you younger crowd, Priplanus was the name the Robinson family gave the planet they were living on in Season 1 of Lost In Space after they became lost during their mission to colonize the Alpha Centauri system.

A slow-moving generational ship heading for a nearby star probably wouldn't be practical in either cost or resources. A nuclear fusion rocket could theoretically propel a starship up to about ten percent of light speed. Even then it would take about 40 years to reach Proxima Centauri at 4.3 light-years away. Then the ship would have to slow down before reaching it, adding to the travel time. This would still be a reasonable flight time compared to 400 years. The crew would probably need to be frozen in suspended animation just like on Lost In Space, and we haven't perfected that kind of technology yet.

Barring the invention of some type of warp drive, it's probably the best we can do to make interstellar travel a reality. Sadly, I don't think I will live long enough to see it. Two interesting studies were made in the 1960s and 70s regarding this--NASA's Project Orion, which theorized exploding nuclear bombs behind a spacecraft to push it to a respectable fraction of light speed, and the British Interplanetary Society's Project Daedalus, which has a fusion-powered probe reaching Barnard's Star, about 6 light-years away, within 50 years.The probe would not slow down, but it would release several sub-probes to investigate any planets found in the system. This is probably the most realistic possibility with our current science, but a functional fusion rocket has yet to be developed.
10% the speed of light?!! That's insane! That is never going to happen. 10% the speed of light is 29979245.8 metres per second.
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Old September 21st, 2020 #8
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10% the speed of light?!! That's insane! That is never going to happen. 10% the speed of light is 29979245.8 metres per second.
Never say never. Remember when some folks thought if man were meant to fly, he would have wings? Or that the sound barrier could never be broken? Or that humans would never achieve space flight?
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Old September 21st, 2020 #9
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But how would you keep busy the generations that would live and die on the journey without ever setting foot on any planet? Wouldn't it be better to wait until technology advances to the point where it can be done within a single lifespan?
There is no conceivable way to get there in one lifetime. But it's not much more realistic to do it over generations. That would require a minimum viable population (approx. 150-200 people). Even if you could get that many people off the ground, the food and water they would require is immense. There's no where to stop for provisions along the way.
I think it highly unlikely that we will ever inhabit another solar system. I think it would be better to use those resources to make the best of this solar system.
We don't even know what the conditions are on Proxima Centauri b (having 3 suns would be strange), even with the Humble telescope we can't make it out. The distance is so vast, and quite empty.
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Old September 21st, 2020 #10
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...and the British Interplanetary Society's Project Daedalus, which has a fusion-powered probe reaching Barnard's Star, about 6 light-years away, within 50 years.The probe would not slow down, but it would release several sub-probes to investigate any planets found in the system. This is probably the most realistic possibility with our current science, but a functional fusion rocket has yet to be developed.
I remember the study put out by British Interplanetary Society and read it. Going from memory I recall they planned to come out with a new study maybe every year. [They may have come out with several plans over some years...one as I describe and one as your post describes.]

The Project Daedalus that I read back in the days would explode small fusion bombs behind the ship which had a giant adsorbing plate. The ship would accelerate slowly over months and reach 12% percent of the speed of light. The process would be repeated backwards as the ship approached the destination.

I haven't read this web site yet, but just found it.
https://www.bis-space.com/what-we-do...oject-daedalus

Mike
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Old September 21st, 2020 #11
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Never say never. Remember when some folks thought if man were meant to fly, he would have wings? Or that the sound barrier could never be broken? Or that humans would never achieve space flight?
Of course I don't remember that, LOL. Does anyone? The first flight was in 1903 I was born in 1988. The sound barrier and space flight were old news by then.
I must stress that throughout history, at all times and on all subjects, there will be found differing opinions. Not knowing what the scepticism was based on I can't gage the significance. The lists of predicted advances that never came to pass are not short, perhaps they just went with the best odds.
Those with reservations concerning our lack of wings don't seem to have doubted the ability to accomplish it.
Sure a small handful of people make it to space (and now we must hitch a ride) but 99.99% of us remain earth bound still waiting for our flying cars and robot butlers. The closest we've got so far is the Roomba vacuum.
None of these technological hits and misses increases the likely hood of getting to another solar system though. Some things simply are not possible. The laws of physics do not allow us to live on the sun. Travelling at even 1% the speed of light would be no less fatal. The sound barrier was broken at less than 800 mph, 1% the speed of light is 1,863 miles per second.
Even single digit g-force for more than a few seconds can be dangerous. 10 g could kill you in less than a minute. Going from San Francisco, CA to Houston, TX in 1 second would produce g-force in the hundreds of thousands, the strongest metals and alloys we have would crumple like tissue paper under such stress, The human body would fare even worse.
This force results from the interaction of acceleration on mass. It is at work whenever we move, a fact of nature that cannot be avoided.

Regarding the philosophical speculation that our lack of wings should be interpreted as a supernatural prohibition of flight, I don't know who these people were but did they also object to swimming due to our lack of gills and fins?
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Old September 21st, 2020 #12
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As far as I know, Jonathan Harris wasn't homosexual. He was married and had a son, but who knows?

Many younger viewers think his Dr. Smith character was, though. I don't agree, Smith was just a clown and a buffoon. He did appear to like women in several different episodes where there were female guest actors.

You're correct. Jonathan Harris, who was a Russian Jew BTW, wasn't Gay in real life.

However, much like the also-Jewish Vincent Price, his method of acting was often designed to give that impression.

The Jew is a master at presenting many different faces to the goyim...
 
Old September 21st, 2020 #13
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However, much like the also-Jewish Vincent Price, his method of acting was often designed to give that impression.

The Jew is a master at presenting many different faces to the goyim...
Vincent Price was a jew? Do you have a source for that claim?

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Never say never. Remember when some folks thought if man were meant to fly, he would have wings? Or that the sound barrier could never be broken? Or that humans would never achieve space flight?
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Originally Posted by joeylowsac View Post
Of course I don't remember that, LOL. Does anyone? The first flight was in 1903 I was born in 1988. The sound barrier and space flight were old news by then.


Okay, I admit that that was a funny reply from Joey.
 
Old September 21st, 2020 #14
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Some things simply are not possible. The laws of physics do not allow us to live on the sun. Travelling at even 1% the speed of light would be no less fatal. The sound barrier was broken at less than 800 mph, 1% the speed of light is 1,863 miles per second.
Even single digit g-force for more than a few seconds can be dangerous. 10 g could kill you in less than a minute. Going from San Francisco, CA to Houston, TX in 1 second would produce g-force in the hundreds of thousands, the strongest metals and alloys we have would crumple like tissue paper under such stress, The human body would fare even worse.
This force results from the interaction of acceleration on mass. It is at work whenever we move, a fact of nature that cannot be avoided.
Speed and acceleration are two quite different things. One could accelerate to one-tenth the speed of light without pulling too many G's; you simply have to accelerate gradually over a longer period of time.

There are numerous things that were once thought impossible that are amusing to read about today. The British Surgeon General (or whatever his title was) in the mid-1800's was noted to have said that cutting into patient's chests would be forever off limits to the wise surgeon. A famous explorer, Captain Cook, I believe, was noted to have said that the north and south poles could never be reached by man.

I suppose there are some things that are truly impossible, such as living on the sun, but I don't think traveling to another solar system seems too unreasonable.
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Old September 21st, 2020 #15
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Originally Posted by joeylowsac View Post
Of course I don't remember that, LOL. Does anyone? The first flight was in 1903 I was born in 1988. The sound barrier and space flight were old news by then.
I must stress that throughout history, at all times and on all subjects, there will be found differing opinions. Not knowing what the scepticism was based on I can't gage the significance. The lists of predicted advances that never came to pass are not short, perhaps they just went with the best odds.
Those with reservations concerning our lack of wings don't seem to have doubted the ability to accomplish it.
Sure a small handful of people make it to space (and now we must hitch a ride) but 99.99% of us remain earth bound still waiting for our flying cars and robot butlers. The closest we've got so far is the Roomba vacuum.
None of these technological hits and misses increases the likely hood of getting to another solar system though. Some things simply are not possible. The laws of physics do not allow us to live on the sun. Travelling at even 1% the speed of light would be no less fatal. The sound barrier was broken at less than 800 mph, 1% the speed of light is 1,863 miles per second.
Even single digit g-force for more than a few seconds can be dangerous. 10 g could kill you in less than a minute. Going from San Francisco, CA to Houston, TX in 1 second would produce g-force in the hundreds of thousands, the strongest metals and alloys we have would crumple like tissue paper under such stress, The human body would fare even worse.
This force results from the interaction of acceleration on mass. It is at work whenever we move, a fact of nature that cannot be avoided.

Regarding the philosophical speculation that our lack of wings should be interpreted as a supernatural prohibition of flight, I don't know who these people were but did they also object to swimming due to our lack of gills and fins?
Well, I'm a little older than you and I'm familiar with the old saying about man never flying because he didn't have wings, I just thought it was still a fairly well-known old saying, but I guess not. But I think you're just being facetious here.

Sure, it's been proven through physics and science we can't live on the sun. Obviously many things have been proven by science and physics. But how can you say for certain x and y are impossible when they haven't been proven out completely, such as reaching near light-speed, and when the very physics and technology for that haven't been completely ironed out or even invented yet? Do you possess some sort of clairvoyance the rest of us are lacking? As I recall, you don't believe we even landed on the Moon, do you?

In the case of acceleration to fractions of light speed/relativistic velocity, the studies I cited do not have their spacecraft accelerating under rocket thrust constantly--after the initial boost, most of it is by inertia, so there is no reason humans couldn't survive any stresses and g-forces with the proper protection, some of which doesn't exist yet, either super-strong alloys, an inertial-dampening force field, or whatever. In the 19th century for instance, there were scientists who said in all seriousness that people could not survive going past 50 miles per hour, so that even precluded humans travelling by steam locomotive, but it happened nonetheless. What are your credentials to speak in such absolutes? People like that have been proven wrong time and time again as our scientific and technological knowledge increased. We are nowhere near knowing everything there is to know about the universe.
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Old September 22nd, 2020 #16
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Default Project Valkyrie

Here's a video about Project Valkyrie, a NASA project to transport humans at 92% of the speed of light.


Gotta love it for the name alone. I'm glad they didn't name it after some Polynesian god or something.

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Old September 26th, 2020 #17
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Speed and acceleration are two quite different things. One could accelerate to one-tenth the speed of light without pulling too many G's; you simply have to accelerate gradually over a longer period of time.
The goal was to reach Proxima Centauri b in a significantly shorter time not eventually reach a particular speed.
But you can workout how long it would take to slowly accelerate to 30,000 kilometres per second, keeping in mind that upon approach you would also need to decelerate in the same manner.
(you can use 0 as the starting time)
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Old September 26th, 2020 #18
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Well, I'm a little older than you and I'm familiar with the old saying about man never flying because he didn't have wings, I just thought it was still a fairly well-known old saying, but I guess not. But I think you're just being facetious here.

Sure, it's been proven through physics and science we can't live on the sun. Obviously many things have been proven by science and physics. But how can you say for certain x and y are impossible when they haven't been proven out completely, such as reaching near light-speed, and when the very physics and technology for that haven't been completely ironed out or even invented yet? Do you possess some sort of clairvoyance the rest of us are lacking? As I recall, you don't believe we even landed on the Moon, do you?

In the case of acceleration to fractions of light speed/relativistic velocity, the studies I cited do not have their spacecraft accelerating under rocket thrust constantly--after the initial boost, most of it is by inertia, so there is no reason humans couldn't survive any stresses and g-forces with the proper protection, some of which doesn't exist yet, either super-strong alloys, an inertial-dampening force field, or whatever. In the 19th century for instance, there were scientists who said in all seriousness that people could not survive going past 50 miles per hour, so that even precluded humans travelling by steam locomotive, but it happened nonetheless. What are your credentials to speak in such absolutes? People like that have been proven wrong time and time again as our scientific and technological knowledge increased. We are nowhere near knowing everything there is to know about the universe.
Making broad references to nameless people who have been wrong about something in the past, even if you can actually tell us who they are, is not evidence for any present theory. That would be a fallacy of logic even if there weren't more people who overestimate than underestimate. Not knowing everything there is to know is equally fallacious, an appeal to ignorance which neither supports nor refutes anything. Nor my skill in divination (or lack there of).
You do not even have a theory just vague imaginings and specific optimism.
Your ideas of protecting against g-force suggests that you are misunderstanding the nature of it. It is not a force working on an object from the outside, it is the direct affect of acceleration on mass. While I'm sure you can imagine a "force field" that will easily accomplish it, protecting something from its own mass is not realistic. I don't need a crystal ball to predict that no one will be mentioning it in a grant application.
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Old September 26th, 2020 #19
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The goal was to reach Proxima Centauri b in a significantly shorter time not eventually reach a particular speed.
But you can workout how long it would take to slowly accelerate to 30,000 kilometres per second, keeping in mind that upon approach you would also need to decelerate in the same manner.
(you can use 0 as the starting time)
30,000 kilometers per second is 30,000,000 meters per second.
The acceleration due to gravity is about 10 meters per second per second.
By pulling just one G, it would take just 3,000,000 seconds to reach that speed.
That's just 50,000 minutes.
That's just 833:20 hours.
That's just 34 days, 17 hours, 20 minutes.
That's just a little over a month.
If you cut the acceleration down to one-tenth of that, it would take just 347 days, 5 hours, 20 minutes.
That's about 11 months, 2 weeks.
That's under a year.
It's doable, so long as we have sufficient propulsion.
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Old September 26th, 2020 #20
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The acceleration due to gravity
From what gravity?
 
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