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Old March 6th, 2015 #3721
Stephen De Grene
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Originally Posted by Crowe View Post
You're just another christ-tard that puts religion before race. Let me tell you which Russia I support - WHITE Russia. See that's not so hard? Or do you value race so little that you'd place the teachings of a jewish homosexual above it?
You support international jew, I have heard you whore for Ukraine in here, because Azov has some cool nazi graphics or something.
 
Old March 6th, 2015 #3722
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Originally Posted by Serbian View Post
Then why aren't they "suing for peace"? Instead they are deploying and bringing more resources to the front during this so called 'ceasefire'. NATO is also sending more supplies people and equipment.

For some reason you seem to think that the population in junta controlled Ukraine is worse off than the population of Donbass. They are not. Yes they live in hardship but however tough it is for them there is no comparison with how bombed people with no roof over their heads in freezing cold, some even on the verge of starvation, are living in rebel areas. No pensions were being paid as the whole area of so called ATO has been placed under economic blockade by the junta and the West.

I will be more than happy for you to come on here say next year and call me out on my error by saying see I told you so! However if I was a betting man I wouldn't put my money on your analysis as I have already seen this scenario with Donbass unfold once before in my area. Same situation same jew actors. We had Albright Novorussians have Nuland.

Unless Russia changes from within the way I see it is there are only three realistic possibilities for Donbass.

First military total defeat. It may take even a few years of building up Kiev while at the same time draining sapping and blockading Donbass until it gets to that weakened point where we have something very similar to Operation Storm in the Balkans. In such case Russia will have to prepare for a few million refugees.

Second possibility, a kind of semi temporary 'peace' with possibly UN or EU 'peace keepers/even more monitors' while politically slowly working for a so called 'peaceful reintegration into Ukraine'. See East Slavonia and Baranja in ex Yugoslavia as a model for this scenario.

Third possibility is some combination of the above two, with certain areas being taken militarily while other harder to take ones are slowly reintegrated step by step, gradually handing over their local authority and power to Kiev.
No one said they are smart, they are being egged on by the US into an unwinnable situation. They have been totally outsmarted by Putin here and are being forced to go for broke, partially because they are anti-russian psychopaths, and partially because they get their marching orders from the US.

Now you are making strawmen. I never said life was better in Novorossiya than Kiev. I said Novorussians they are infinitely tougher and better fighters, even though they are outnumbered and out equipped, they are winning. Not to mention there is growing sentiment against the government in Kiev due to the worsening economic crisis. Moscow is in much better shape than Kiev though, despite both going through currency devaluations. In the long game, Putin is in a much better position than the Kiev regime strategically.

Russians(and novorussians) are tougher than Ukrainians, tougher than Europeans. In simple terms, they are a tougher breed. They have withstood and defeated several invasions over the centuries, and have lived in much worse conditions than this from an economic perspective. Even if conditions worsen in Donbass(it seems to be getting mildly better in the interior as they expand into Junta territory), they won't surrender because they don't get their pensions. If it was an issue of material wealth, they would have never took up arms in the first place. They simply don't have the materialist mindset of the westerner, who fears material loss. They put blood, soil, and faith above money or comfort. This is why the Russian is so admirable. They remind me of the Europeans of antiquity.

I understand your skepticism, and I am not a 100% optimist about the situation. I just don't think the sky is falling what you suggest. And as you are an expert on Serbia, you have to admit Russia is in a much better geopolitical position. America and the West is not as strong as it was in the 90s, and Russia is much stronger than Serbia was. I don't think this will be another Balkans situation, I truly don't.

I just disagree with your first scenario if you look at what is going on on the ground.

You second scenario is plausible, though I don't think full integration is possible after all this bloodshed, I don't think the East will go for an integration situation unless there is a significant degree of political autonomy. However even if there is "integration", there will be a federalization situation, and Russian interests will be strong enough in the region to prevent EU and NATO integration.
 
Old March 7th, 2015 #3723
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http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2...is-in-ukraine/

ISIS in Ukraine

Kiev and the jihadists: a dark alliance

Quote:
While we’re fighting the Islamic State, a.k.a. ISIS, in Iraq and Syria, and American officials tout the alleged danger of an attack on the US homeland, in Ukraine Washington and the Caliphate are fighting on the same side. A remarkable series of articles by Marcin Mamon in The Intercept has documented an aspect of the Ukraine conflict that no one else has paid any attention to: the role played by the "Dudayev Battalion," a fighting force of radical Islamists consisting of Chechens, but also including fighters from throughout the Caucasus as well as some Ukrainains.

The keys to Ukranie’s Islamist underground were handed to Mamon by a contact in Istanbul, "Khalid," who commands the ISIS branch there. "Our brothers are there," he told Mamon, and the reporter traveled to Ukraine where he was put in touch with a contact named Ruslan, who led him to Munayev’s clandestine camp.

Named after the first "president" of breakaway Chechnya, Dzhokhar Dudaev, the Dudayev Battalion was commanded by Isa Munayev, recently killed in a east Ukraine. Imbued with a fanatical hatred of the Russians, who are backing the rebels in the east, Munayev’s men also feel they are paying back a debt, since the ultra-nationalist Right Sector battalions now fighting for Kiev apparently helped the Chechens in the past. Right Sector is an openly neo-fascist paramilitary group which provided much of the muscle that made the coup against Viktor Yanukovych, former Ukrainian president, possible. Organized into various battalions, including the notorious Azov Brigade, they idolize the World War II collaborators with the Nazis, who fought Soviet troops: the ultra-nationalists have been accused of carrying out atrocities in the Donbass, as well as terrorizing their political opponents on the home front. According to Mamon, they also have been involved in fighting the Russians in far-off Chechnya, where former Right Sector bigwig Oleksandr Muzychko fought alongside Munayev and "the brothers" against the Russians. As Ruslan told Mamon:

"I am here today because my brother, Isa, called us and said, ‘It’s time to repay your debt. There was a time when the brothers from Ukraine came [to Chechnya] and fought against the common enemy, the aggressor, the occupier."

Aside from this solemn warrior ethic, another likely reason for ISIS support to Kiev is the access this gives the terrorists to Western targets. As Mamon puts it:

"Ukraine is now becoming an important stop-off point for the brothers, like Ruslan. In Ukraine, you can buy a passport and a new identity. For $15,000, a fighter receives a new name and a legal document attesting to Ukrainian citizenship. Ukraine doesn’t belong to the European Union, but it’s an easy pathway for immigration to the West. Ukrainians have few difficulties obtaining visas to neighboring Poland, where they can work on construction sites and in restaurants, filling the gap left by the millions of Poles who have left in search of work in the United Kingdom and Germany."

We are told that ISIS is planning terrorist attacks in Europe, and security forces are busy rounding up suspects all across the continent – and yet here is this gaping hole in the West’s defenses, where "the brothers" are quietly infiltrating without much notice in the Western media. In cooperation with ultra-nationalist groups like Right Sector, which have also formed their semiautonomous battalions, the Islamists of Ukraine, brandishing Ukrainian passports, have opened a gateway to the West.
Quote:
The Dudayev Battalion numbers around 500 fighters, but there are also other jihadist brigades in Ukraine, organized into "the Sheikh Mansour battalion, which broke off from the Dudayev battalion" and "is based close to Mariupol, in the southeast of Ukraine," as well as two other groups composed of Crimean Tatars, each consisting of about 500 jihadists.

As US aid flows into Ukraine, how much of it will trickle down to these allies of ISIS – and to what future use will it be put? If John McCain and Lindsey Graham have their way, US arms will soon find their way into the hands of these terrorists, whose jihad against the Russians is bound to turn westward and strike at the capitals of Europe.

This is blowback with a vengeance: we are creating our own enemies, and giving them the weapons to harm us, even as we claim the need for universal surveillance in order to fight them. The mad scientists formulating US foreign policy are raising an army of Frankenstein monsters – who are sure to come after their deluded creators.
 
Old March 7th, 2015 #3724
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Originally Posted by Robbie Key View Post
The killing of my friend Boris Nemtsov must signal the death of appeasement

Garry Kasparov

To stop Putin’s aggression, it isn’t necessary for the west to defeat the entire Russian army: just a strategy to make him look like a loser
How very Jewish of Mr Kasparov. For him, it's all about spin and public relations. If Jews, in all their media mastery, can make Putin appear to be a loser, then, he becomes one, regardless of the facts on the ground, as they say, in Gaza and elsewhere.
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Old March 7th, 2015 #3725
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Originally Posted by Stephen De Grene View Post
Russians(and novorussians) are tougher than Ukrainians, tougher than Europeans. In simple terms, they are a tougher breed. They have withstood and defeated several invasions over the centuries, and have lived in much worse conditions than this from an economic perspective. Even if conditions worsen in Donbass(it seems to be getting mildly better in the interior as they expand into Junta territory), they won't surrender because they don't get their pensions. If it was an issue of material wealth, they would have never took up arms in the first place. They simply don't have the materialist mindset of the westerner, who fears material loss. They put blood, soil, and faith above money or comfort. This is why the Russian is so admirable. They remind me of the Europeans of antiquity.
Which is why I don't think we'll ever see regime change here. Unlss you're fighting for something larger than commisary privledges and a pension, the battle is already half lost. A Iraqi war vet seeing ISIS taking over vast areas of Iraq must be having some serious doubts as to the lasting effects of his "patriotic" efforts to "bring democracy" to Iraq, about now. The Russians have dog in this fight and we don't, despite the likes of Senator John McCain and Lindsey Graham telling us we do.
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Old March 7th, 2015 #3726
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Originally Posted by Crowe View Post
Do you wear a yarmulke when you fellate to pictures of Putin hanging on your wall?
You have constantly exposed yourself to be a mischling.

Want to talk specifics? Putin's directive never mentioned 'holocaust denial', and the real reason why the directive was passed has been given the attention needed in previous postings, therefore in the context of the overall situation your distractive tactics expose you as a shit-stirrer, there are far better men and women than both you and I who are doing invaluable work in breaking down the jew lies about the hoax that is the 'Holocaust' so for you to try and make out you are some 'Crusader for Truth' points to your own self delusion.

As for your understanding of the jews many and varied sects you have even conceded you do not even know what you are even rambling about.

As regards Kike Sector your lack of a response when I called you out as one of Kolomoiskyi's Kock-Boys further reveals your true agenda.

So as not to play your distraction and shit-stirring games you are now blocked because this forum does not merit any more attention to your ramblings and as a courtesy to such as Serbian and others.
 
Old March 7th, 2015 #3727
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An attempt was made today on the life of Alexei Mozgovoi.
 
Old March 7th, 2015 #3728
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Originally Posted by Stephen De Grene View Post
You support international jew, I have heard you whore for Ukraine in here, because Azov has some cool nazi graphics or something.
You're really grasping at straws at this point.

http://vnnforum.com/showpost.php?p=1...postcount=3719

Does this look like I support the Ukrainian jew puppet regime? The fact is that formerly Ukraine is now jewkraine. But that doesn't mean that Putin is this messiah riding in on a white horse championing pro-White interests. He's just an enemy of an enemy. I'm fully aware that the so-called "Nationalists" in Ukraine are in fact kosher nationalists. My only purpose in this topic was to share an opinion that doesn't involve kissing Putin's ass. I reserve the right to be critical of anyone who puts a yarmulke on their head, anyone who silences the truth about the biggest fucking lie in history, and anyone who donates money out of their own pocket to a jewish museum. There are a number of politicians around the world if they did the same thing Putin did, I guarantee wouldn't be receiving the admiration that some here are showing for the man. I'll call any politician a "jewish muppet" if they did what Putin did, so I'm not singling Putin out. I've ripped into Rand Paul, who was touted as one of the "good" republicans by the conservative wing of WN for the exact same reasons I'm critical of Putin. He bowed to the jews. The Golden Dawn didn't get to where they were at by kissing jewish ass. Nobody can tell me that kissing their ass is a required political strategy to further pro-White interests. Its absolutely NOT. And if you think it is, then you should go join Jared Taylor's AMREN. Its been proven that its not by people smarter than me or you.

Look dude, just read instead of mentally retarding yourself like a frustrated butthurt queen just because I criticized your religion. I really don't want to turn this topic into a shitstorm. I just came here to offer my opinion, whether anyone likes it or not. If you want to continue this, make a topic in tard corral or something, and I'll get back to you eventually.

Last edited by Crowe; March 7th, 2015 at 07:35 PM.
 
Old March 7th, 2015 #3729
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Originally Posted by Reinhard View Post
You have constantly exposed yourself to be a mischling.
Calling someone a jew on these forums is against the rules, unless you have evidence. I suggest you fork it up pretty quick, and if you can't then I'll give you the opportunity to offer an apology.

Quote:
Want to talk specifics? Putin's directive never mentioned 'holocaust denial', and the real reason why the directive was passed has been given the attention needed in previous postings, therefore in the context of the overall situation your distractive tactics expose you as a shit-stirrer, there are far better men and women than both you and I who are doing invaluable work in breaking down the jew lies about the hoax that is the 'Holocaust' so for you to try and make out you are some 'Crusader for Truth' points to your own self delusion.
Quote:
The law signed Monday makes denial of Nazi crimes or misrepresentation of the Soviet Union’s role in World War II punishable by up to five years in jail or a $14,000 fine.
And a link from RT (Russian media, typically pro-Putin)
http://rt.com/politics/denial-holoca...es-russia-853/

Putin vows Russia will never forget the holohoax
http://rt.com/politics/russia-putin-israel-iran-258/

You can argue specifics all you want, and it just proves how desperate you are to deflect criticism from your man love Putin. What do you think they mean by "nazi crimes"? Do you have a fucking brain? Or do you just take everything you read at face value like other troglodytes?

Quote:
As for your understanding of the jews many and varied sects you have even conceded you do not even know what you are even rambling about.
Where exactly? I saw conflicting reports. That isn't conceding anything.

Quote:
As regards Kike Sector your lack of a response when I called you out as one of Kolomoiskyi's Kock-Boys further reveals your true agenda.
If I was to call you a cock sucking faggot, would your lack of response to that be admitting you're a cock sucking faggot?

Quote:
So as not to play your distraction and shit-stirring games you are now blocked because this forum does not merit any more attention to your ramblings and as a courtesy to such as Serbian and others.
You're a coward to call someone a jew and then say you're blocking them. Shows your true colors.

Last edited by Crowe; March 7th, 2015 at 07:10 PM.
 
Old March 7th, 2015 #3730
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Crowe, I thought you were just a troublemaking ___ until I read these recent posts of yours. Now I see where you're coming from. I also note that you signed up here as recently as 2012, so I assume you're fairly young. And youth would coincide with idealism, right? Or, less willingness to compromise about things maybe. So please consider the following:

In real world high power politics men often find it necessary to play along about things with which they disagree in order to accomplish a bigger task they have aimed for. The danger in following this path is that of the slippery slope of corruption, of course. More have slid down that slope than haven't.

Putin has tried to get along with the Jews and because of his ultimate goals it hasn't worked. Still he must try, by jumping through their hoops - so long as they don't directly harm Russia. Going to Israel and signing Jewy laws that aren't enforced is theater.

While he is certainly no Hitler he has now been forced into the same position. Theatrics alone will not satisfy the Jews. And Putin is not a dim bulb. He may not have set as his original goal anything more than the proper governance of Russia but he is now forced to defend it. If you think he won't you haven't researched the accomplishments of this man. He knows, as do the Americans and the Europeans, that Europe is straining at the bit to tear itself away from US monetary and military occupation. Naturally none of the participants dare speak of this until it's a done deal.

In a word, patience. Besides, at this point what do we have to lose by putting some faith in the main target of the Jews? Under present circumstances, condemning Putin is at least counter productive.
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Old March 7th, 2015 #3731
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Originally Posted by M. Issig View Post
An attempt was made today on the life of Alexei Mozgovoi.

I warned of this back in the thread. Really not surprising following Batman's and Ishenko's elimination.

This is definitely the direct work of neo-communist mongrel rat Plotnitsky or those closely associated with his criminal rule in the LPR. Mazagavoj is for the people while these rats are for oligarchy and corrupt business as usual. Mazgavoj still upholds the idea of Novorossiya while these magggots only think in terms of their own private little thiefdom the LPR and they never mention Novorossiya because they are against it.

A day before Mazgavoj attempt

Quote:
After high-profile statements about the so-called government LC, today March 6 at around 8 am, in the city center, near a gas station, a pedestrian crossing and stop - was an attempt to remove unwanted authorities, the unit commander "RUS", Sergei Mikhailovich Bondarenko.
administration Antratsitovskogo



And Mazgavoj following assassination attempt. He is very calm and diplomatic

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Last edited by Serbian; March 7th, 2015 at 11:38 PM. Reason: add info
 
Old March 7th, 2015 #3732
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Breedlove's Bellicosity: Berlin Alarmed by Aggressive NATO Stance on Ukraine

By SPIEGEL Staff


Top NATO commander General Philip Breedlove has raised hackles in Germany with his public statements about the Ukraine crisis.


US President Obama supports Chancellor Merkel's efforts at finding a diplomatic solution to the Ukraine crisis. But hawks in Washington seem determined to torpedo Berlin's approach. And NATO's top commander in Europe hasn't been helping either.

It was quiet in eastern Ukraine last Wednesday. Indeed, it was another quiet day in an extended stretch of relative calm. The battles between the Ukrainian army and the pro-Russian separatists had largely stopped and heavy weaponry was being withdrawn. The Minsk cease-fire wasn't holding perfectly, but it was holding.

On that same day, General Philip Breedlove, the top NATO commander in Europe, stepped before the press in Washington. Putin, the 59-year-old said, had once again "upped the ante" in eastern Ukraine -- with "well over a thousand combat vehicles, Russian combat forces, some of their most sophisticated air defense, battalions of artillery" having been sent to the Donbass. "What is clear," Breedlove said, "is that right now, it is not getting better. It is getting worse every day."

German leaders in Berlin were stunned. They didn't understand what Breedlove was talking about. And it wasn't the first time. Once again, the German government, supported by intelligence gathered by the Bundesnachrichtendienst (BND), Germany's foreign intelligence agency, did not share the view of NATO's Supreme Allied Commander Europe (SACEUR).

The pattern has become a familiar one. For months, Breedlove has been commenting on Russian activities in eastern Ukraine, speaking of troop advances on the border, the amassing of munitions and alleged columns of Russian tanks. Over and over again, Breedlove's numbers have been significantly higher than those in the possession of America's NATO allies in Europe. As such, he is playing directly into the hands of the hardliners in the US Congress and in NATO.

The German government is alarmed. Are the Americans trying to thwart European efforts at mediation led by Chancellor Angela Merkel? Sources in the Chancellery have referred to Breedlove's comments as "dangerous propaganda." Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier even found it necessary recently to bring up Breedlove's comments with NATO General Secretary Jens Stoltenberg.

The 'Super Hawk'

But Breedlove hasn't been the only source of friction. Europeans have also begun to see others as hindrances in their search for a diplomatic solution to the Ukraine conflict. First and foremost among them is Victoria Nuland, head of European affairs at the US State Department. She and others would like to see Washington deliver arms to Ukraine and are supported by Congressional Republicans as well as many powerful Democrats.

Indeed, US President Barack Obama seems almost isolated. He has thrown his support behind Merkel's diplomatic efforts for the time being, but he has also done little to quiet those who would seek to increase tensions with Russia and deliver weapons to Ukraine. Sources in Washington say that Breedlove's bellicose comments are first cleared with the White House and the Pentagon. The general, they say, has the role of the "super hawk," whose role is that of increasing the pressure on America's more reserved trans-Atlantic partners.




A mixture of political argumentation and military propaganda is necessary. But for months now, many in the Chancellery simply shake their heads each time NATO, under Breedlove's leadership, goes public with striking announcements about Russian troop or tank movements. To be sure, neither Berlin's Russia experts nor BND intelligence analysts doubt that Moscow is supporting the pro-Russian separatists. The BND even has proof of such support.

But it is the tone of Breedlove's announcements that makes Berlin uneasy. False claims and exaggerated accounts, warned a top German official during a recent meeting on Ukraine, have put NATO -- and by extension, the entire West -- in danger of losing its credibility.

There are plenty of examples. Just over three weeks ago, during the cease-fire talks in Minsk, the Ukrainian military warned that the Russians -- even as the diplomatic marathon was ongoing -- had moved 50 tanks and dozens of rockets across the border into Luhansk. Just one day earlier, US Lieutenant General Ben Hodges had announced "direct Russian military intervention."

Senior officials in Berlin immediately asked the BND for an assessment, but the intelligence agency's satellite images showed just a few armored vehicles. Even those American intelligence officials who supply the BND with daily situation reports were much more reserved about the incident than Hodges was in his public statements. One intelligence agent says it "remains a riddle until today" how the general reached his conclusions.

Much More Cautious

"The German intelligence services generally appraise the threat level much more cautiously than the Americans do," an international military expert in Kiev confirmed.

At the beginning of the crisis, General Breedlove announced that the Russians had assembled 40,000 troops on the Ukrainian border and warned that an invasion could take place at any moment. The situation, he said, was "incredibly concerning." But intelligence officials from NATO member states had already excluded the possibility of a Russian invasion. They believed that neither the composition nor the equipment of the troops was consistent with an imminent invasion.

The experts contradicted Breedlove's view in almost every respect. There weren't 40,000 soldiers on the border, they believed, rather there were much less than 30,000 and perhaps even fewer than 20,000. Furthermore, most of the military equipment had not been brought to the border for a possible invasion, but had already been there prior to the beginning of the conflict. Furthermore, there was no evidence of logistical preparation for an invasion, such as a field headquarters.

Breedlove, though, repeatedly made inexact, contradictory or even flat-out inaccurate statements. On Nov. 18, 2014, he told the German newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung that there were "regular Russian army units in eastern Ukraine." One day later, he told the website of the German newsmagazine Stern that they weren't fighting units, but "mostly trainers and advisors."

He initially said there were "between 250 and 300" of them, and then "between 300 and 500." For a time, NATO was even saying there were 1,000 of them.

The fact that NATO has no intelligence agency of its own plays into Breedlove's hands. The alliance relies on intelligence gathered by agents from the US, Britain, Germany and other member states. As such, SACEUR has a wide range of information to choose from.

Influencing Breedlove

On Nov. 12, during a visit to Sofia, Bulgaria, Breedlove reported that "we have seen columns of Russian equipment -- primarily Russian tanks, Russian artillery, Russian air defense systems and Russian combat troops -- entering into Ukraine." It was, he noted, "the same thing that OSCE is reporting." But the OSCE had only observed military convoys within eastern Ukraine. OSCE observers had said nothing about troops marching in from Russia.

Breedlove sees no reason to revise his approach. "I stand by all the public statements I have made during the Ukraine crisis," he wrote to SPIEGEL in response to a request for a statement accompanied by a list of his controversial claims. He wrote that it was to be expected that assessments of NATO's intelligence center, which receives information from all 33 alliance members in addition to partner states, doesn't always match assessments made by individual nations. "It is normal that not everyone agrees with the assessments that I provide," he wrote.

He says that NATO's strategy is to "release clear, accurate and timely information regarding ongoing events." He also wrote that: "As an alliance based on the fundamental values of freedom and democracy, our response to propaganda cannot be more propaganda. It can only be the truth."

The German government, meanwhile, is doing what it can to influence Breedlove. Sources in Berlin say that conversations to this end have taken place in recent weeks. But there are many at NATO headquarters in Brussels who are likewise concerned about Breedlove's statements. On Tuesday of last week, Breedlove's public appearances were an official item on the agenda of the North Atlantic Council's weekly lunch meeting. Several ambassadors present criticized Breedlove and expressed their incredulity at some of the commander's statements.

The government in Berlin is concerned that Breedlove's statements could harm the West's credibility. The West can't counter Russian propaganda with its own propaganda, "rather it must use arguments that are worthy of a constitutional state." Berlin sources also say that it has become conspicuous that Breedlove's controversial statements are often made just as a step forward has been made in the difficult negotiations aimed at a political resolution. Berlin sources say that Germany should be able to depend on its allies to support its efforts at peace.

Pressure on Obama

German foreign policy experts are united in their view of Breedlove as a hawk. "I would prefer that Breedlove's comments on political questions be intelligent and reserved," says Social Democrat parliamentarian Niels Annen, for example. "Instead, NATO in the past has always announced a new Russian offensive just as, from our point of view, the time had come for cautious optimism." Annen, who has long specialized in foreign policy, has also been frequently dissatisfied with the information provided by NATO headquarters. "We parliamentarians were often confused by information regarding alleged troop movements that were inconsistent with the information we had," he says.

The pressure on Obama from the Republicans, but also from his own political camp, is intense. Should the ceasefire in eastern Ukraine not hold, it will likely be difficult to continue refusing Kiev's requests for shipments of so-called "defensive weapons." And that would represent a dramatic escalation of the crisis. Moscow has already begun issuing threats in anticipation of such deliveries. "Any weapons deliveries to Kiev will escalate the tensions and would unhinge European security," Nikolai Patrushev, secretary of Russia's national security council, told the Russian newspaper Komsomolskaya Pravda on Wednesday.

Although President Obama has decided for the time being to give European diplomacy a chance, hawks like Breedlove or Victoria Nuland are doing what they can to pave the way for weapons deliveries. "We can fight against the Europeans, fight against them rhetorically," Nuland said during a private meeting of American officials on the sidelines of the Munich Security Conference at the beginning of February.



US diplomat Victoria Nuland: Paving the way for weapons deliveries.


In reporting on the meeting later, the German tabloid Bild reported that Nuland referred to the chancellor's early February trip to Moscow for talks with Putin as "Merkel's Moscow stuff." No wonder, then, that people in Berlin have the impression that important power brokers in Washington are working against the Europeans. Berlin officials have noticed that, following the visit of American politicians or military leaders in Kiev, Ukrainian officials are much more bellicose and optimistic about the Ukrainian military's ability to win the conflict on the battlefield. "We then have to laboriously bring the Ukrainians back onto the course of negotiations," said one Berlin official.

Nuland Diplomacy

Nuland, who is seen as a possible secretary of state should the Republicans win back the White House in next year's presidential election, is an important voice in US policy concerning Ukraine and Russia. She has never sought to hide her emotional bond to Russia, even saying "I love Russia." Her grandparents immigrated to the US from Bessarabia, which belonged to the Russian empire at the time. Nuland speaks Russian fluently.

She is also very direct. She can be very keen and entertaining, but has been known to take on an undiplomatic tone -- and has not always been wrong to do so. Mykola Asarov, who was prime minister under toppled Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych, recalls that Nuland basically blackmailed Yanukovych in order to prevent greater bloodshed in Kiev during the Maidan protests. "No violence against the protesters or you'll fall," Nuland told him according to Asarov. She also, he said, threatened tough economic and political sanctions against both Ukraine and the country's leaders. According to Asarov, Nuland said that, were violence used against the protesters on Maidan Square, information about the money he and his cronies had taken out of the country would be made public.

Nuland has also been open -- at least internally -- about her contempt for European weakness and is famous for having said "Fuck the EU" during the initial days of the Ukraine crisis in February of 2014. Her husband, the neo-conservative Robert Kagan, is, after all, the originator of the idea that Americans are from Mars and Europeans, unwilling as they are to realize that true security depends on military power, are from Venus.

When it comes to the goal of delivering weapons to Ukraine, Nuland and Breedlove work hand-in-hand. On the first day of the Munich Security Conference, the two gathered the US delegation behind closed doors to discuss their strategy for breaking Europe's resistance to arming Ukraine.

On the seventh floor of the Bayerischer Hof hotel in the heart of Munich, it was Nuland who began coaching. "While talking to the Europeans this weekend, you need to make the case that Russia is putting in more and more offensive stuff while we want to help the Ukrainians defend against these systems," Nuland said. "It is defensive in nature although some of it has lethality."

Training Troops?

Breedlove complemented that with the military details, saying that moderate weapons aid was inevitable -- otherwise neither sanctions nor diplomatic pressure would have any effect. "If we can increase the cost for Russia on the battlefield, the other tools will become more effective," he said. "That's what we should do here."


In Berlin, top politicians have always considered a common position vis-a-vis Russia as a necessary prerequisite for success in peace efforts. For the time being, that common front is still holding, but the dispute is a fundamental one -- and hinges on the question of whether diplomacy can be successful without the threat of military action. Additionally, the trans-Atlantic partners also have differing goals. Whereas the aim of the Franco-German initiative is to stabilize the situation in Ukraine, it is Russia that concerns hawks within the US administration. They want to drive back Moscow's influence in the region and destabilize Putin's power. For them, the dream outcome would be regime change in Moscow.

A massive troop training range is located in Yavoriv in western Ukraine near the Polish border. During Soviet times, it served as the westernmost military district in the Soviet Union. Since 1998, though, it has been used for joint exercises by Ukrainian forces together with the United States and NATO. Yavoriv is also the site where US soldiers want to train members of the Ukrainian National Guard for their future battle against the separatists. According to the Pentagon's plans, American officers would train the Ukrainians on how to use American artillery-locating radar devices. At least that's what US Army in Europe commander Lt. Gen. Hodges announced in January.

The training was actually supposed to start at the beginning of March. Before it began, however, President Obama temporarily put it on hold in order to give the ceasefire agreement reached in Minsk a chance. Still, the hawks remain confident that they will soon come a step closer to their goal. On Tuesday, Hodges said during an appearance in Berlin that he expects the training will still begin at some point this month.

By Matthias Gebauer, Christiane Hoffmann, Marc Hujer, Gordon Repinski, Matthias Schepp, Christoph Schult, Holger Stark and Klaus Wiegrefe


http://www.spiegel.de/international/....co/OvCmWA3FPM
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Old March 7th, 2015 #3733
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Crimea is now part of Russia again. By recognizing Soviet gift to Soviet Ukraine as still part of pro EU Ukraine Serbia doesn't respect territorial integrity of Russia. I hope there are consequences for Serbia over this stance.

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Belgrade "respects Ukraine's territorial integrity"

Source: Tanjug

BELGRADE -- Minister without portfolio for EU Integrations Jadranka Joksimovic said on Friday that Serbia "respects the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine."


Filipenko and Joksimovic meet in Belgrade

She made the comment as she met with Ukrainian Charge d'Affaires in Belgrade Yevgeniia Filipenko, "to discuss Serbia's European integrations."

"The reforms that are being undertaken by the government are crucial for achieving Serbia's strategic goal on the path to EU membership and the regional cooperation that the country is promoting is significant," Joksimovic said.

She reiterated that Serbia respects the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine, the Serbian government said.

Filipenko said that the Ukrainian side is interested in cooperation and experience-sharing in the field of European integrations, and wished Serbia success on that path.

She also noted that Ukraine is "defending the principles of international law" and that it has not recognized Kosovo's unilateral declaration of independence, and added that Kiev "welcomes Serbia's efforts as OSCE chair." they will recognize once the EU gives them the order. for now it is not an issue because they have other problems to deal with.

According to Joksimovic Serbia will strive to, in that role, "gain affirmation as a dependable partner and, to the best of its abilities, contribute to solutions to issues relevant to the stability and security in the European region and beyond."
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Old March 7th, 2015 #3734
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Originally Posted by ohgolly View Post
Crowe, I thought you were just a troublemaking ___ until I read these recent posts of yours. Now I see where you're coming from. I also note that you signed up here as recently as 2012, so I assume you're fairly young. And youth would coincide with idealism, right? Or, less willingness to compromise about things maybe. So please consider the following:
I'm no grey beard, but I'm no spring chicken either.

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In real world high power politics men often find it necessary to play along about things with which they disagree in order to accomplish a bigger task they have aimed for. The danger in following this path is that of the slippery slope of corruption, of course. More have slid down that slope than haven't.
And this is why politicians who behave in such a manner cannot ever be trusted. Should they be? I've seen successful politicians who didn't have to go that route.

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Putin has tried to get along with the Jews and because of his ultimate goals it hasn't worked. Still he must try, by jumping through their hoops - so long as they don't directly harm Russia. Going to Israel and signing Jewy laws that aren't enforced is theater.
That doesn't make any sense. Putin sucks up to jews, you admit it hasn't worked. Yet you insist he must keep sucking up to jews as long as they don't harm Russia? Jews are busy wrecking Russia as we speak in the form of economic attacks and White genocidal activities. Russia is a White country, which puts a bullseye on it for jews to inflict harm. You can't placate a parasite. You'd have to believe something as silly as "some jews are ok" to insinuate that jews have the capability to be anything other than nation destroyers.

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He may not have set as his original goal anything more than the proper governance of Russia but he is now forced to defend it.
I'll agree with you there.

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In a word, patience. Besides, at this point what do we have to lose by putting some faith in the main target of the Jews? Under present circumstances, condemning Putin is at least counter productive.
If others want to put faith in Putin, they can. But I got no plans to join the cheer leading squad.
 
Old March 8th, 2015 #3735
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Some interesting factoids in this fortruss piece...

http://fortruss.blogspot.ca/2015/03/...an-or.html?m=1
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Old March 8th, 2015 #3736
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Strikes me as a golden opportunity:

http://www.defensenews.com/story/def...-war/24327263/

General Breedlove??? Friggin' love it! Pentagon gone comedy classics...
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Last edited by Toecutter; March 8th, 2015 at 07:30 AM.
 
Old March 8th, 2015 #3737
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Originally Posted by Crowe View Post
If others want to put faith in Putin, they can. But I got no plans to join the cheer leading squad.
I would love, even crave, to see Russia sweep into Ukraine and even deeper, Europe proper, but then I was brought up on Hollywood movies - as you probably were. In real life it just doesn't work like that.

What will eventually happen is that Germany will sign some midnight agreement with Russia that will throw the US completely off balance. From there peace and the eradication of Jewish American dominance will begin. But it requires two steps forward, one step back, for a while.

Don't be sidetracked by theatrics, which are as necessary as mama's milk.
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Old March 8th, 2015 #3738
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Originally Posted by ohgolly View Post
What will eventually happen is that Germany will sign some midnight agreement with Russia that will throw the US completely off balance. From there peace and the eradication of Jewish American dominance will begin. But it requires two steps forward, one step back, for a while.

Don't be sidetracked by theatrics, which are as necessary as mama's milk.
The difference between us is you're placing blind faith based on what you'd like to see happen more than anything. I guess as desperate as the situation is, some people need something to point to as a positive. The jews got Germany locked up as tightly as they do the US. They don't even have anything close to an Adolf, they got that slag Angela Merkel. Just another muppet.

It would suit me just fine if Russia was to invade Ukraine. Putin is the lesser of evils. I hope anyone defeats ZOG everywhere in the world. But hope, and thinking its actually going to happen are 2 separate things.

I already said in a previous post if Putin actually hands off Antey 2500 SAMs to Iran, instead of talking about it, that would convince me he's not a puppet. JewSA is already arming the kosher nationalists in Ukraine, and Putin could get even by denying Israel the ability to successfully attack Iran with air strikes. What's he waiting for? He should be trying to cut the red tape and make that deal happen.

If israel goes down, ZOGs around the world will go down, including the jewkrainian puppet regime. Taking israel out is probably going to require somebody suicide their entire nation to do it. Iranians are the top contenders, not the Russians. I don't want to see Russia suicide their nation.
 
Old March 8th, 2015 #3739
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Originally Posted by Stephen De Grene View Post
Russians(and novorussians) are tougher than Ukrainians, tougher than Europeans. In simple terms, they are a tougher breed. They have withstood and defeated several invasions over the centuries, and have lived in much worse conditions than this from an economic perspective. Even if conditions worsen in Donbass(it seems to be getting mildly better in the interior as they expand into Junta territory), they won't surrender because they don't get their pensions. If it was an issue of material wealth, they would have never took up arms in the first place. They simply don't have the materialist mindset of the westerner, who fears material loss. They put blood, soil, and faith above money or comfort. This is why the Russian is so admirable. They remind me of the Europeans of antiquity.
That is the stupidest BS I've heard all week. Are you Russian or even any bit Slavic yourself? No. You're a southern christtard mouth-breather. Have you ever been to Russia, or even personally know any actual Russians? No and no. You're projecting, just like your fellow southern christtard, ohgolly.

Here's the reality for you: Russians are no different than Americans. They are: just as fat, just as stupid, just as disengaged, and just as indoctrinated as any "Kwan". So get your head outta your ass. Putin is going to be ousted within the next two years, there ain't ever gonna be any impossibly laughable alliance between Russia and Germany, and America as we know it ain't going away in my lifetime or yours. Go pin your hopes on another horse, or better yet, grow the fuck up and effect the change you want yourself.
 
Old March 8th, 2015 #3740
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I'm hoping the Democrats take the White house and Kiev takes Donbass.

The super-secret hidden conspiracy behind Putin is this: he's a conservative. Yeah, remember Reagan? This is the other side's Reagan. He believes in mom, the flag, and beef stroganoff. He doesn't want to teach kids to be gay cause that's weird and creepy. He doesn't want the Americans to invade like in Red White and Blue Dawn. He only wants brown people to come to Russia if they speak Russian and believe in the Soviet Dream. He wants to win the Cold War and watch Leave it to Beavski.

Yeah that sounds better than France, and yeah Putin's showed his Cold War chops when it comes to pursuing his goals, but ultimately it's trying to delay the inevitable. I simply don't see Putin - or any Russian who succeeds him - changing the way things go unless they feel they're backed into a corner. If left alone by the terrifying USAEUNATONWOZOG monster, Russia would be exactly where we are now in 30 years.

So why not hope for an upstart Kievian win? Best case scenario they go rogue. Maybe one of the guys with the spooky masks is a Nazi genius, how would you know? Worst case scenario Russia's new tzar remembers the old one and starts asking Iran for advice. Or tries to make use of the newly-betrayed nationalists to his west. He has an 85% approval rating and a thousand nukes. And he's not getting any younger (much to his lament I'm sure).
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Last edited by Vance Stubbs; March 8th, 2015 at 07:53 PM.
 
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