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Old December 4th, 2005 #41
Cthulhu
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A mix of cosmic conciousness with pantheism is what Myatt is peddling:

http://www.experiencefestival.com/cosmic_consciousness

When the moon is in the Seventh House
And Jupiter aligns with Mars
Then peace will guide the planets
And love will steer the stars

This is the dawning of the age of Aquarius
The age of Aquarius
Aquarius!
Aquarius!

Harmony and understanding
Sympathy and trust abounding
No more falsehoods or derisions
Golden living dreams of visions
Mystic crystal revalation
And the mind's true liberation
Aquarius!
Aquarius!

When the moon is in the Seventh House
And Jupiter aligns with Mars
Then peace will guide the planets
And love will steer the stars

This is the dawning of the age of Aquarius
The age of Aquarius
Aquarius!

Hippy. But hey, I wouldn't mind except you are peddling it as NS.
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Old December 4th, 2005 #42
alex
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Quote:
Excellent stuff. The "national liberated zones" remind me of the PLE certain American WN are trying to form. They, however, don't have a unifying political ideal, which I always thought a mistake.
Of course.When you are organized in such loose groupings without a central "party", organization or leader,its the ideology that binds people together.Of course not all neonazis are national socialists,but the leaders of these "Kameradschaften" are.

On Rhadley...dont be so harsh with him.There will be always people in the movement who will see national socialism with a religious flair.What about the "Schwarze Sonne" back in the 20's and 30's ? As long as such people contribute to the movement with their real world activism i dont care.The power positions will be held by reasonable people,so there is nothing to be afraid of.
Do you think the average SA man had the same understanding of the world as Hitler did? Of course not,but they were willing to fight for Him and His idea.The problem today as compared to back then is the internet.Today every SA-man goes to a forum and demands discussions on various issues and topics with the various leaders of the movement.Can you imagine a Adolf Hitler spending his time on a forum discussing all possible matters with his rank and file?
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In the age of Globalization,its not the international Left,but the nationalist Right,which is the true anticapitalist force,which will set restrictions on the international Capital and will secure and improve the nation-state as a social shelter.
 
Old December 4th, 2005 #43
Cthulhu
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Okay alex. It is just that many young people fall for this religious stuff and then think they are superior to their fellows because they have secret escoteric knowledge, the "real deal". And this makes them undisciplined because they always know better. And instead of real life action they build up fuedal estates and making up rules for the peasants their knightly class commands. Talk to them about old fashioned NS values and they ignore it because they have the new and improved version.

It is really is killing the movement in a lot of places because the internet allows the dissemenation of such cobblers into many an unwary mind, so cells are still born before they begin. No social issues, but intergalactic evolutionary issues and supermen to the fore.
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Old December 4th, 2005 #44
Beunthanasie Haas
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Why do you call Kühnen: builder of the post-ww2 german neonazi. A lot of German National Socialists were and are against Kühnen.

I don`t like the ANS-idea cause it just looks like bad copy of the real nazis and it looks like they try to monopolize the NSDAP and Hitler.

Like Hitler wrote you shouldn`t try to rebuild and fantasize about old glory. But you have to look into the future
 
Old December 4th, 2005 #45
alex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beunthanasie Haas
Like Hitler wrote you shouldn`t try to rebuild and fantasize about old glory. But you have to look into the future
Sorry i didnt get that.Are you saying that i shouldnt fantasize about and rebuild the Third Reich?
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In the age of Globalization,its not the international Left,but the nationalist Right,which is the true anticapitalist force,which will set restrictions on the international Capital and will secure and improve the nation-state as a social shelter.
 
Old December 4th, 2005 #46
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(PART II)

Written by Mareike Jörns Translated from http://www.akweb.de/ak_s/ak458/26.htm

Civil-society,extreme right

The hegemonial-strategies of nazis in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern

In the "green land at the blue sea" one finds besides country beautifulnesses something more:an explosive melange of right-wing extremist attitudes to be found crosswise through all ages and social classes,a in the youth culture well embodied neo-Nazi subculture and an organized right-wing extremist scene, which knows how to use these conditions well.

In the year 2000 right-wing extremists beat up and killed 4 homless people.The Algerin Mohammed Belhadj was killed in the summer 2001 with a stone.He allegedly had forgotten to give his murderers the promised drugs.Members of the right-wing scene killed the alcoholic pensioner Fred Blanke in the same year by stomping on him and by using chairs,because he refused to give them money.Extreme right-wing violence in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern (MV) is not only very common,but also particularly brutal.

Statistically seen,MV is after Sachsen-Anhalt the region with the highest rate of extreme right-wing criminal offences in relation to the total population."In no other region,so many youths commit violent acts as in MV.Very concerning is the fact that ever more foreigners become the victims of extreme right-wing criminality,reports "the general prosecutor of the region ,Martensen,to a local Schweriner newspaper.

Extremly brutal criminal offences are however only the tip of the iceberg.Each view in the regional newspapers shows: extreme right-wing activities belong almost to the everyday life.Desecrations of graves-motivated by anti-semites-,beatings and intimidation attempts for example at village celebrations,neonazi-marches and right-wing leafleting- the messages repeat themselves.The NPD created a citizens' initiative against the "further influx of foreigners"; in Karlsberg the party organized a signature-action against the accomodation of evacuees from Russia; in the summer of 2001 they supported two right-wing student-initiatives; a student-newspaper brings right-wing propaganda to children and young people.

"to experience something together"

Organizing neonazis find in MV a fiendly sentiment.Important parts of the right-wing ideology find appreciation among large parts of the population.Only the extreme violence of many youths seems problematic to the citizens.Particularly the agitation of right-wing extremism which links the racist "fear of more foreigner influx" with the topic of mass unemployment,the neonazis harmonously confirm the majority opinion. Studies for the spreding of right-wing sentiment in MV draw a depressive picture: 16 % of the population has a extreme right-wing worldview. About 30% of the youth go in accord with the racist and extreme right-wing worldview,and about 36% sympathize with it.Only 34% opposed extreme right-wing views.Teachers and VS-officers agree that the organized skinhead-scene is becoming ever younger.Neonazis try to agitate even to 13-14 year olds and bring them to their cliques.

Right-wing views are treated as very normal even by youths who dont participate in "Kameradschaften" or party structures.Once the youths organize in extreme right-wing structures for an amount of time,they become immune to influence from the outside.Some teachers in particular regions of MV call the today's generation "the lost generation" and are concerned for the younger,those beeing 10 to 14 years old and that have no alternative "orientation possibilities".

"The extreme right-wing has a civilian-social concept.With the occupation of the pre-political arena,with the creation of alternative mass media and the conquering of national liberated zones,he managed to use east-Germany for the advancement of his interests.Contrary to the democratic parties,right-wing extremism relies on the local work and aims at a more long-term and broad effect."This "civilian-social concept",which was developed by new-rightists like Antonio Gramsci, is based on a strategy ,which aims at the penetration of particular social areas and the establishment of cultural hegemony.Organized neonazis try thereby to use the social problems in east-Germany in a way that the population accepts more and more the solutions proposed by the right-wing extremists.

Already at the beginning of the 90's neonazi-cadres had developed in noumerous strategy-papers the concept of the "national liberated zones" and the model of the "Kameradschaften".The strategic thoughts originated from Michael Kühnen and his comrades and was developed later on by "neonazi think tanks" such as the nationaldemocratic university bund and the magazine "Nation Europa".

Even before the discussions about a NPD-prohibition,neonazis searched for alternative models which could not get outlawed so easily. "Kameradschaften" function differently than parties and organizations rather like cliques.The comradeship is guarranted through social cement:
common leisure activities,hanging around at the same bus-station,attending concerts together,travel to neo-nazi marches and the attendance of "comrade evenings".This organization form has two advantages: It is substantially more difficult on the part of the state to sanction,than for example parties or associations.The state cannot outlaw friendships.In addition the "Kameradschaften" model is substantially more attractive to young people than a political party.Going out together and "experience something" eases the entrance -and ends not seldomly in acts of violence against the political enemy.The forbidden "Blood&Honour" successfully organized concerts in MV over the years. Hate rock is the entrance for many youths into the nazi-scene.Many teachers record that it has become very normal and "in",in many schools, to listen to forbidden CD's.

Right-wing in the maisntream

In MV there are approx. 50 Kameradschaften.Of those about 15 play an important role in the nazi-structures.Those have country-wide connections,their own internet homepages and fanzines and are alyways present on nation-wide neonazi marches.Many of those 50 Kameradschaften are only loose unions between right-wing youths,have some influence in their region but other than that stay in the underground.Actual threatingly thereby is above all the effect they have on the remaining youth culture.Since practically no alternative offers are present,the attractiveness of right-wing cliques rises particularly in rural regions.Nazi cadres from the west know how to use this potential. Ludwiglust is a good example of how a beer drinking- thugish nazi scene evolved into a good organized "Kameradschaft",after the neonazi Klaus Bärthel moved in there and started teaching youths at "comrade evenings".

"National liberated zones" -yes even in the most hateful word of the year 2000,concepts and strategies for the acquisition of cultural hegemony in certain regions are hiding.The Youth organization of the NPD formulates it as follows: "We must create free spaces,in which we exercise actual power,in which we are sanctionable,i.e. we punish deviationists and enemies, we support our combat comrades,we help the suppressed and persecuted fellow citizens (...) one must in such a way that one swims in a sea of sympathy and that the neutral populace is willing "to put its hand on fire" for us.In that case any supression by the state will not only be unfruitful but it will succeed in the exact opposite: more people will come to us (...) if a street -it could also be a small village- becomes a "liberated zone" by that way we will have conquered real counter-power."

The vision of the "national liberated zones" has still not been achieved in all its prospects.But there are quiote a few regions which have become "no-go-areas" for those in MV who the nazis call their "enemies". Again as an example Ludwigslust: Here alternative,"leftists" young people report that they dont dare go out on the streets and public places in the evening.The danger,to be threatened or beaten up,is simply too big.
Immigrants,asylum-seekers,young people who recognizably are non-right-wing and all those who do not fit in the nazi worldview,are at danger when they induce themselves at certain times completely normally in public places.Intimidation and the offensive occupation of areas,like youth-gatherings,discotheques etc are the effective strategies of the "Kameradschaften".Typical NPD activities in MV on the other hand are the work with student-initiatives and information-stands,the collecting of signature-lists and the infiltration of "alliances against righ-wing extremism",where they pose as normal citizens who only have a slight "national conviction".Within the framework of the movement the party is responsible for the seemingly-democratic public appearence while the "Kameradschaften" violently propagate the same propaganda on the streets,at concerts and at the schools.

At the same time they try to build up economically-independ structures. There are many shops in MV where the equipment of a right-wing youth gets selled: the appropriate clothes,music and books etc... In this connection the influx of west german neo-nazis is important. Thus for example the neonazi Thomas Wulff from Hamburg and Michael Grewe from Lüneburg bought a house in Amholz,which is to be developed into a training center.The well known neo-nazi Christian Worch explains the influx of west german neo-nazi cadres to MV in such way: "For one the housing-prices are cheaper here and on the other hand we have a more positive basic sentiment of the population to us."

The strategies outlined here are not converted breakless by the right-wing extremists into reality.And the wide-spread extreme right-wing opinions are not only based on the work of organized neonazis.The policies of the "new center"-by politicians like Schröder up to Schily and dont forget Mr. Schill (who would get more than 20% of the votes in MV after recent polls)-are responsible for this too.But more importantly is that the example of MV shows that political concepts hide behind extreme right-wing violence .Its not the workings of some alcoholic idiots ,like the mainstream society would like to think.And the concepts are threateningly effective.

*EDIT* We all await anxiously the elections of Meckelnburg-Vorpommern in September of 2006.If all goes well the NPD will enter another parliament(after Saxony).The NPD has promised to put at least one "radical" on their election lists.If the NPD keeps its promise it will be the first time after 1945 that an outspoken National Socialist enters a german parliament.It will be the funniest thing in Germany for a long time.
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In the age of Globalization,its not the international Left,but the nationalist Right,which is the true anticapitalist force,which will set restrictions on the international Capital and will secure and improve the nation-state as a social shelter.
 
Old December 5th, 2005 #47
Rhadley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cthulhu
A kike, a satanist? I don't care, you are just a shit stirrer trying to derail NS.
So much for rational debate, then - you have returned to rather inane personal insults, and are beginning to sound like two people.

When someone challenges your beliefs, you rant and return with personal abuse.

You never answered this question - what have you done for National Socialism? How many hundreds, how many thousands, of people have you inspired to become NS? How many years have you been active in NS organizations? How many public speeches have you given in favor of NS? How many street fights have you been involved in against ant-nazis? And so on.

That you castigate - without any personal knowledge - someone who has converted hundreds, thousands, of people to NS, world-wide, is interesting.

That you throw personal abuse at - and repeat ZOG allegations against - someone who has spent over thirty years fighting for NS, giving speeches, leading several NS organizations, being imprisoned, being involved in fights, and so on, is interesting.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cthulhu
Stop lying you GD yid! Or lunatic satanist!
You've lost it, it seems - or maybe one half of you has lost it

Name-calling like that is surely the last refuge of the irrational deluded or the arrogant irrational type.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cthulhu
Instead of focusing on social issues confronting our people today and securing our nations and our peoples you want to prosthletize a new religion, setting white man against white man to struggle for their fundamental spiritual beliefs instead of addressing their problems in the real world today.
If you have really taken the trouble to read Myatt you would have realized that his concern is providing an ethical way of life, for Aryans, which way of life does not invovle what you assume it does - to wit, setting Aryan against Aryan.

You have so obviously failed to read Myatt - for you ignore what he writes time and time again about allowing others the freedom to make their own choice. In addition, he is not interested in proselytizing - as one of quotes I gave makes clear.

Furthermore, the root of our problems is a lack of ethics and a lack of a real Aryan spiritual dimension - social problems are symptoms. We need a spiritual renaissance; not empty political answers which last a few years or a few decades.

The problem goes much deeper than you assume. Now, we could debate this in a serious, rational - and adult - way, as I have tried to do, but you, it seems, do not wish to do this. Sigh!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cthulhu

Fuck you kike, fuck you and your luciferian quest.
No wonder we are in the state we, as a people, are in when an irrational, dishonorable, response such as this is given on a WN forum.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cthulhu
Come on lie some more. Make up some more untruths. Point to another contradiction. Hair split some more, you talmudic cretin, take up more of our time with religious crap, you seek to muddle NS with.
Just how old are you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cthulhu
Stop disturbing this thread with your fantasies. alex has information to share. STOP TRYING TO INTERUPT HIM.

Now, you are the one that jumped in here with a rant about Myatt after I quoted Myatt re homosexuality, which was indeed germane to this thread. You followed that with another rant and then tossed in your ZOG allegations against Myatt. I am just countering your allegations. So, isn't the fault yours?

Stop your rants against a fellow White Nationalist and this rather off-topic thread will cease.

I offered a rational debate and all you have done, with one exception, is hurl personal, irrational, abuse. Also, wheh asked to provide some evidence for the dishonorable accusations you made, you just ranted, and hurled more personal abuse. Interesting, that - is it not?
 
Old December 16th, 2005 #48
Angle
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I'm intrigued by the German scene. I like the idea of 'national liberated zones'. We could use a few of those in the 'battlezones' of London, Oldham, Bradford, Moss Side, Birmingham. I think white youths especially like the idea of being able to stick up for themselves against nigger and Paki gangs, some of whom are involved in some heavy criminal shit.
Unfortunately, the UK more closely resembles West Germany (the capitalist mind-raping is seasoned) than East Germany. Still, no reason to despair! Materials (nationalist CDs, newspapers, websites) are being distributed. Information, entertainment and social events are the basis of a strong network.
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Old December 16th, 2005 #49
Antiochus Epiphanes
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question: is VNN a kameradschaft? or are the kameradschafts operating within VNN? Or are there kameradschafts using VNN as a communications nexus?

Food for thought.
 
Old December 16th, 2005 #50
alex
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VNN has some similarities with "Kameradschaften",but also some differences.

First of all VNN is autonomous,independed and doesnt belong or promote any "neonazi" political party.It's a loose grouping of "friends".

It has a core of activists and many projects (mainly media projects) and a communication forum for networking these activists.

Now to the differences:

"Kameradschaften" work localy and their work is actually aimed for the local-regional population.VNN on the other hand is nation-wide.
"Kameradschaften" operate most of the time in the "real world" and less time virtualy.
The "core" activists of the Kameradschaften all live in the same town/city/village.
"Kameradschaften" are intentionaly small (from 5-8 to max. 40 "core"members) so to be more active localy.If "Kameradschaften" grow bigger they split and two new "Kameradschaften" get created.One stays in the city/town/village the other moves to a neighbouring city/town/village. Of course big cities need more than one "Kameradschaft" but they have to be placed strategicaly.

While media surely is the purpose of some "Kameradschaften" most are dedicated to the concepts of "national liberated zones" and "cultural hegemony".I've already explained the concept of the "national liberated zone" so i will write a line or two about the other important concept namely the "cultural hegemony" :

The youth identifies itsself through different youth-cultures.Hip-hoppers,Metalheads, Techno-freaks,Goths,Skaters and so on.Each has its own unique music and clothing style and activities.The purpose of the "Kameradschaft" is

a)firstly to build an established alternative nazi youth-culture

b)afterwards slowly infiltrating the other youth-cultures

c)finaly to drive out all other competing youth-cultures and claiming total power over the local youth.The "Gleichschaltung" sets in: the only youth culture which has remained for the youth to attend and become part of is the nazi- youth-culture.

And this is what has happened more or less in east-Germany.Now young east-Germans who would under "normal" circumstances have become hip-hoppers or something else, became part of the nazi-youth-culture.Because there it has become the dominating,the "mainstream" youth culture.

How did this domination succeed? Well the "Kameradschaften" infiltrated and slowly occupied typical meeting points of the local youth.For example the local public square, or park,or the local disquothec and so on.It organized nazi-parties and concerts for the youth to attend and more or less successfully disrupted,attacked and sabotaged any activities of competing youth-cultures.
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In the age of Globalization,its not the international Left,but the nationalist Right,which is the true anticapitalist force,which will set restrictions on the international Capital and will secure and improve the nation-state as a social shelter.
 
Old December 16th, 2005 #51
Antiochus Epiphanes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alex
VNN has some similarities with "Kameradschaften",but also some differences.

First of all VNN is autonomous,independed and doesnt belong or promote any "neonazi" political party.It's a loose grouping of "friends".

It has a core of activists and many projects (mainly media projects) and a communication forum for networking these activists.

Now to the differences:

"Kameradschaften" work localy and their work is actually aimed for the local-regional population.VNN on the other hand is nation-wide.
"Kameradschaften" operate most of the time in the "real world" and less time virtualy.
The "core" activists of the Kameradschaften all live in the same town/city/village.
"Kameradschaften" are intentionaly small (from 5-8 to max. 40 "core"members) so to be more active localy.If "Kameradschaften" grow bigger they split and two new "Kameradschaften" get created.One stays in the city/town/village the other moves to a neighbouring city/town/village. Of course big cities need more than one "Kameradschaft" but they have to be placed strategicaly.

While media surely is the purpose of some "Kameradschaften" most are dedicated to the concepts of "national liberated zones" and "cultural hegemony".I've already explained the concept of the "national liberated zone" so i will write a line or two about the other important concept namely the "cultural hegemony" :

The youth identifies itsself through different youth-cultures.Hip-hoppers,Metalheads, Techno-freaks,Goths,Skaters and so on.Each has its own unique music and clothing style and activities.The purpose of the "Kameradschaft" is

a)firstly to build an established alternative nazi youth-culture

b)afterwards slowly infiltrating the other youth-cultures

c)finaly to drive out all other competing youth-cultures and claiming total power over the local youth.The "Gleichschaltung" sets in: the only youth culture which has remained for the youth to attend and become part of is the nazi- youth-culture.

And this is what has happened more or less in east-Germany.Now young east-Germans who would under "normal" circumstances have become hip-hoppers or something else, became part of the nazi-youth-culture.Because there it has become the dominating,the "mainstream" youth culture.

How did this domination succeed? Well the "Kameradschaften" infiltrated and slowly occupied typical meeting points of the local youth.For example the local public square, or park,or the local disquothec and so on.It organized nazi-parties and concerts for the youth to attend and more or less successfully disrupted,attacked and sabotaged any activities of competing youth-cultures.
Alex thanks for this fascinating comparison. Very interesting. Much to ponder.
 
Old December 16th, 2005 #52
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I think this works better in Europe because America's cities are very much rent into ethnic blocs. Terrible Tommy reeled off a list of 'the whitest cities in the US' and they were frighteningly nonwhite - maxing at only 75% white for (merely) medium-sized cities. Real Americans have been driven into the countryside and small towns on the outskirts of major cities (like in the Midwest or California). Europe, by comparison, is very urbanised. European youths organise to take back the cities, because that's where they live - EB says 9 out of 10 people in the UK live in built-up urban/suburban areas. American life revolves around 'the strip', which lacks an epicentre (I saw this for myself in Florida). European life revolves around the town centre, particularly in the more provincial cities. Hegemony is relatively easier to achieve.
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Old December 16th, 2005 #53
alex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angle
I think this works better in Europe because America's cities are very much rent into ethnic blocs. Terrible Tommy reeled off a list of 'the whitest cities in the US' and they were frighteningly nonwhite - maxing at only 75% white for (merely) medium-sized cities. Real Americans have been driven into the countryside and small towns on the outskirts of major cities (like in the Midwest or California). Europe, by comparison, is very urbanised. European youths organise to take back the cities, because that's where they live - EB says 9 out of 10 people in the UK live in built-up urban/suburban areas. American life revolves around 'the strip', which lacks an epicentre (I saw this for myself in Florida). European life revolves around the town centre, particularly in the more provincial cities. Hegemony is relatively easier to achieve.
Yes,well what i described is the theory of the "Kameradschaften" and their activities.Not all of this theory has been accomplished,even in east-Germany.There the cities still have also other,competing youth-cultures.But the rural areas and the smaller cities and towns have been practically taken over.Also i didnt say that what works for Germany has to be copied 1 to 1 in other countries.But i believe with some minor changes here and there,this could be possible in the US too.

Anyway,the problem with the existance of other "racial" groups is correct.That hardens the work of the "Kameradschaften",in contrast to more or less "homogenous" places.The reason for this is simple.Blacks for example will always have their youth-subculture.And blacks of course cannot be integrated into the nazi-youth-culture.Thereby some white-youth will still have the alternative to the nazi-subculture.But through hard work and the power of the streets ("national liberated zones") this can be possible too.
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In the age of Globalization,its not the international Left,but the nationalist Right,which is the true anticapitalist force,which will set restrictions on the international Capital and will secure and improve the nation-state as a social shelter.
 
Old January 27th, 2006 #54
alex
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Some pictures of Kühnen and his comrades from the new book about his life.Taken from the homepage of the KDS: http://www.kds-im-netz.de/schriften/besprechung.htm





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