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Old November 30th, 2004 #1
Alex Linder
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Default Falwell's Liberty Law School

Whites should pay attention to the efforts of Christians to build alternative media and schools.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...wtotheirflocks


By Emma Schwartz Times Staff Writer

LYNCHBURG, Va. ó What Debra Meador read disturbed her. It didn't seem right that schoolchildren were once barred from holding prayer groups after class. Or that the Ten Commandments couldn't be displayed in a government building.

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*

So at 34, the human relations specialist from Lynchburg made good on a longtime interest by enrolling in law school. But unlike most prospective lawyers, she applied to only one place.


"I wanted to take it in a Christian setting," said Meador, a member of the inaugural law class at Liberty University, a Baptist college founded here in 1971 by the Rev. Jerry Falwell. "I don't believe anyone could be neutral. We're willing to tell you what we believe and to follow that."


The school, like Meador, who aspires to argue cases before the Supreme Court, has grand designs. Right now, it has only 60 students and six faculty members. Provisional accreditation by the American Bar Assn. ó which certifies that a school has been evaluated on the quality of its legal education and allows students to sit for the bar exam in any state ó is at least two years away.


But by teaching law from a Christian perspective, Falwell hopes to train a cadre of Christian lawyers to fight what he sees as the growing secularization of public life across the country.


And the school plans to offer select students hands-on experience with a law firm that takes on constitutional issues. That would occur when Liberty Counsel, a legal organization in Orlando, Fla., that focuses on cases involving religion and traditional values, moves its legislative arm to the campus.


Best known for establishing in 1979 the Moral Majority, one of the first evangelical efforts to affect political discourse, Falwell sees the law school as an extension of his mission.


"We certainly are training Christian activists," Falwell, who this month announced the creation of a 21st century version of the Moral Majority that aims to re-energize religious conservatives, said in an interview last week. "We're turning their attention to understand the Bible is the infallible word of God, that the American Constitution is a sacred document and that the Christian worldview is their matrix of service."


But for many students, the Christianity at the school's core does not mandate that they promote religion in the courtroom. Nor do faculty members see producing such graduates as their goal. As they point out, lawyers ó not Falwell ó do the teaching.


For Brad Fraser, a 23-year-old Pennsylvanian who completed his undergraduate degree at Liberty, the law school's purpose is not "to legislate morality. Our goal is to get back to the underlying principles that form the law."


The school is not the first to approach the law from a Christian perspective, nor is it the only such institution to emerge in recent years. Legal organizations backed by evangelical Christians have been waging court battles over the last two decades.


But it represents the latest effort by the religious right to transform American society ó on everything from the division between church and state to such social issues as abortion and same-sex marriage ó from the inside out. And it's an indication of the alienation that many conservative Christians feel amid the larger secular culture.


"Christians are just now coming around to see the importance of law and legal institutions in terms of judges and government," said Michael P. Schutt, director of the Institute for Christian Legal Studies at Regent University in Virginia Beach, Va., whose law school takes a similar approach to Liberty's. "So Christians have begun to think about how we can influence these important perspectives."


It's a direction that has raised eyebrows among some civil libertarians and constitutional law scholars who fear that schools like Liberty are designed to preach, not teach.


"I don't believe that the understanding of Jerry Falwell about the history of America and of the American Constitution is remotely accurate, nor is it ethically responsibly," said the Rev. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State and a longtime critic of Falwell. "It is designed to turn America into his view of a Christian nationÖ. When you get these insular institutions who believe they are right and fighting the entire world, you get extremists coming out as graduates."


The picture inside Liberty's law school ó a recently remodeled building acquired from a manufacturing plant that moved out of town ó sheds a decidedly more complex light on the sort of legal education students receive.


On Thursday, a property-law class opened with a prayer, led by the instructor. But for the rest of the hour, the students' attention turned to more mundane subjects: leases, mortgages and tenant contracts. They read cases on who had the right to inherit property and discussed the differences in legal interpretations across courts.

*


It's much like any other law school, instructor Morris E. Osborne, who spent years at the Florida firm of Akerman Senterfitt, said after class. The only difference: Osborne can, if he sees the opportunity, use the Bible as a teaching tool.

Students and faculty members say the curriculum includes law school staples: tort law, criminal procedure, constitutional law, contracts and real estate. There is also a three-year required series on lawyering ó training in everything from filing a brief to interviewing clients.

Where Liberty's curriculum differs from most law schools is that legal studies are integrated with questions about morality, discussions centered on natural law and classes peppered with Christian perspectives on course material. The most concrete example, students and faculty say, is the first-year Fundamentals of Law course, which includes an examination of Christian influence on the foundation of the American legal system.

But mostly, what this viewpoint means for instructors like H. Beau Baez, a Georgetown University law graduate who teaches torts, is that "we can explain not just what the rule is in the current state of the law, but what the law should be."

It's an important perspective, said Bruce W. Green, the law school's dean, because law based on morality and natural law is "underrepresented in the free marketplace of ideas," making schools like Liberty all the more important to "make sure that viewpoint is heard."

Law schools with strong religious underpinnings are showing signs of growth around the country. Ave Maria School of Law, a Roman Catholic institution in Ann Arbor, Mich., opened four years ago, and University of St. Thomas, also Catholic, in St. Paul., Minn., graduated its first law class last spring. Both schools have received provisional ABA accreditation.

Although nearly all of Liberty's students are Christian, not all are Baptist. One is Jewish; a few said they hadn't set foot in a church in years before coming here. (Attendance at services is not required, but most students do go.)

There were more than 200 applicants for Liberty's inaugural class, Green said. This year the school expects more than twice that number of applications.

Perhaps the closest parallel to Liberty is Regent University's law school, founded in 1986 by the Rev. Pat Robertson, host of television's "The 700 Club." Based three hours east of here, the school ó which received its full ABA accreditation in 1996 ó has a close relationship with the American Center for Law and Justice, a Washington nonprofit law firm also founded by Robertson.

If Regent's graduates are any indication of Liberty's future, many more go into public-interest law than the national law school average of about 3% of a class. But even at Regent, they account for no more than 10% of the graduates, with the remainder opting for more traditional legal fields, said Jeffrey A. Brauch, the school's dean.

Although a number of Liberty's students express interest in public service and politics, their career goals run the gamut of the legal profession, from the intrigues of international law to the corporate offices of Wal-Mart.

Students and faculty express a similar draw to the school: that it's a place with a clear Christian mission, where a high priority is put on training honest, effective lawyers.

"A lot of us have concerns about where the culture is going and want to use the Bible and faith and their legal degrees to get the culture back in the direction they think is best," said Michael Krause, a 24-year-old from San Antonio who says he wants to be governor of his home state one day. "But it's not like they are teaching us to use the Bible. They're teaching us to use our education."
 
Old November 30th, 2004 #2
Rob Roy MacGregor
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I wonder if Jerry Falwell has see this site, http://www.come-and-hear.com/ and has plans to counteract the Noahide Pharisee laws from being enacted further.

As much as he kisses Israel's ass... I doubt it.
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Old November 30th, 2004 #3
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In the Church of Christ we have everything from grade schools to colleges (Kentucky Christian University the best college I have ever visited) and we can take our children all the way from kindergarten to graduation without them ever having to attend a public school. At KCU you can get your masters in many things even Law.

I donít know if anyone here has been to a Christian school but it is a different world, white teachers with a huge smile, friendly children clean schools. If you are a monster you are ejected and your parents donít get a refund. I would recommend visiting KCU the food there is in the form of a huge buffet and is similar to a Ryans steak house. The people there are unreal and dressed very nice. When a student sees a wrapper or something on the ground they pick it up and toss it. The children there are much more intelligent than those in public schools, as they have a strict criteria and if they donít make the grade they are ejected and parents donít get a refund. The college I went to had an accelerated grade scale, a 70% was failing in a bible course and a 60% was failing in any other course. Fail 3 courses in one semester and you were expelled for a year. It is my goal in life to graduate from there. (costs $16,000 a year though but it is worth it).

I do believe that those of us that choose to send our children to private schools should be exempt from public school tax or our tax money should go towards our childrenís tuition.

Right now the Jews are trying to destroy our Christian schools by funding tuition for groids in an effort to take them from the ghetto and give them a top-notch education. But there is a catch since these are government-funded groids they canít be expelled for any reason, where a white kid (costing parents about ten grand a year) will get kicked out for as much as cursing.

Christian schools are one of the last white strongholds and they need to be protected. I donít care if you are an atheist or pagan surely you would want your child with good decent white Christian children rather in a public sewer with groids that cannot be expelled for any reason.
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Old November 30th, 2004 #4
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and look who they picked to write the story-- emma schwartz, a very jewish name.
 
Old November 30th, 2004 #5
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Default Doc Martin - The imbecile gives advice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sean(doc)martin
In the Church of Christ we have everything from grade schools to colleges (Kentucky Christian University the best college I have ever visited) and we can take our children all the way from kindergarten to graduation without them ever having to attend a public school. At KCU you can get your masters in many things even Law.

I donít know if anyone here has been to a Christian school but it is a different world, white teachers with a huge smile, friendly children clean schools. If you are a monster you are ejected and your parents donít get a refund. I would recommend visiting KCU the food there is in the form of a huge buffet and is similar to a Ryans steak house. The people there are unreal and dressed very nice. When a student sees a wrapper or something on the ground they pick it up and toss it. The children there are much more intelligent than those in public schools, as they have a strict criteria and if they donít make the grade they are ejected and parents donít get a refund. The college I went to had an accelerated grade scale, a 70% was failing in a bible course and a 60% was failing in any other course. Fail 3 courses in one semester and you were expelled for a year. It is my goal in life to graduate from there. (costs $16,000 a year though but it is worth it).

I do believe that those of us that choose to send our children to private schools should be exempt from public school tax or our tax money should go towards our childrenís tuition.

Right now the Jews are trying to destroy our Christian schools by funding tuition for groids in an effort to take them from the ghetto and give them a top-notch education. But there is a catch since these are government-funded groids they canít be expelled for any reason, where a white kid (costing parents about ten grand a year) will get kicked out for as much as cursing.

Christian schools are one of the last white strongholds and they need to be protected. I donít care if you are an atheist or pagan surely you would want your child with good decent white Christian children rather in a public sewer with groids that cannot be expelled for any reason.
What Christian school did you go to stupid? They could not teach you even the basic rules of writing in English. Please tell us as a public service message so this institution can be avoided.
 
Old November 30th, 2004 #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Augustus Sutter
What Christian school did you go to? They could not teach you even the basic rules of writing in English. Please tell us as a public service message so this institution can be avoided.
Hey there you are, what rock have you been hiding under? I didnít go to college to be a journalist or English professor, I studied theology and psychology. Besides have you ever heard of dialect? Of course you havenít because you are a coward hiding out to scared to see the real world. I use a southern dialect popular among people that enjoy hearing us southerners. You want proper English and letter perfect wording pick up a copy of the Jew York Times.


BTW nice job you have done of dumping all over this thread, what did you have to contribute again? Nothing as usual.
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Old November 30th, 2004 #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keystone
My next door neighbors who are black, send their daughters to a Catholic grade school.The Lutheran grade school near me is 1/4 black
Note to Key: MOVE!
 
Old November 30th, 2004 #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean(doc)martin
Hey there you are, what rock have you been hiding under? I didnít go to college to be a journalist or English professor, I studied theology and psychology. Besides have you ever heard of dialect? Of course you havenít because you are a coward hiding out to scared to see the real world. I use a southern dialect popular among people that enjoy hearing us southerners. You want proper English and letter perfect wording pick up a copy of the Jew York Times.


BTW nice job you have done of dumping all over this thread, what did you have to contribute again? Nothing as usual.
Mr. Sutter is right, Doc. Your mastery of English is sorely deficient for one who styles himself a scholar. In my day a fellow who was so careless as to use a plural pronoun with a singular antecedent -- as in "When a student sees a wrapper or something on the ground they pick it up and toss it" -- well, he just wasn't considered college material. Even preachers and psychologists and psychologist preachers like you need to use proper English, and not use "dialect" as an excuse for bad grammer. As a southerner, I'm not impressed with your lazy tongue or your "dialect." You should ask for your $16,000 per year back if you didn't learn freshman English any better than that.
 
Old November 30th, 2004 #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Will
Mr. Sutter is right, Doc. Your mastery of English is sorely deficient for one who styles himself a scholar. In my day a fellow who was so careless as to use a plural pronoun with a singular antecedent -- as in "When a student sees a wrapper or something on the ground they pick it up and toss it" -- well, he just wasn't considered college material. Even preachers and psychologists and psychologist preachers like you need to use proper English, and not use "dialect" as an excuse for bad grammer. As a southerner, I'm not impressed with your lazy tongue or your "dialect." You should ask for your $16,000 per year back if you didn't learn freshman English any better than that.
Doc, what White Will is trying to say is the pronoun "they" is third person plural and does not agree with the antecedent or main clause of the sentence, "when a student sees a wrapper". ("a student" being third person singular).

A simple change in the sequence of verb tenses would remedy the situation. "When a student has seen a wrapper or something on the ground they pick it up and toss it".

That being said, I'm going to give Will an "atta boy" for most chickenshit post of the week. I being a notorious mangler of the English language would hate to have "Professor Williams" checking my Grammar. But then, he only checks xtians doesn't he!
 
Old November 30th, 2004 #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve B
That being said, I'm going to give Will an "atta boy" for most chicken post of the week. I being a notorious mangler of the English language would hate to have "Professor Williams" checking my Grammar. But then, he only checks xtians doesn't he!
Thank you Steve and I trust your most excellent birthday has found you in good spirits, I hope you had a great one.

I understand what you are saying and I have several books on proper English, where I grew up I used proper English and was commented on it often because I had a southern twang (as my teachers described it) from being around my family while using proper English from being around everyone else. (oh the D.O.C isn't a native of the south surprise)

I donít really put an importance on the command of the English language anymore because I know many journalists and English teachers who use perfect enunciation and can barely make the payments on their decade old beater.

Here is a story, one of my high school teachers spoke perfect English and drove an 82 dodge I wouldnít drive home if they gave it to me.

The minister I most admired began a congregation in a house, while working nights in a coalmine. He didnít have anything beyond a high school education. After 40 years of ministering at the same congregation he died and at his death the congregation had 180 members with a weekly receipt of $3,000 and over $500,000 in the bank. Their meeting house was valued at over $1,000,000 and the congregation owned land all over this county. This was done by a man who didnít have one day of college and mauled the English language. All of his 5 children have college degrees and have yet to accomplish anything near what their dad accomplished.

I am sure when Miller spoke the people that listened to him were in awe of his command of the English language and perfect speech (sarcasm). I have spoken in front of over 4,000 people in my lifetime many college professors and what has stood out has been my unusual vernacular.

When I want a letter perfect speech I pay a starving college student $10 to correct the errors. In my opinion perfect speech is not worth the ten spot I spend.

Steve B I do greatly appreciate you and your comments and I am sure Will and Sutter have points but I donít know nor do I care to figure them out.
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Old December 1st, 2004 #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppelhaken
Keystone, why are you "speaking with that omission of syntax stupid people employ when talking to drunken people or foreigners?"
Key is probably confusing impotent switch hitters with drunks and people outside a particular group.
 
Old December 1st, 2004 #12
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Default Doc are you Forrest Gump's evil alter-ego?

Quote:
It is my goal in life to graduate from there.
I thought you already were a college graduate. You stated in the "Doc Martin Mein Comrade" thread that you could not distribute the VNN Tabloid because you were afraid of the law and had to protect your hard won education.

Quote:
(costs $16,000 a year though but it is worth it).
WTF You are are worried about $16? Doc Martin a man who owns seven houses and keeps them empty so no minorities can move next door him is worried about $16k? There are so many questions about the great "Doc Martin" it's hard to keep track. Please help us. We want to understand the nature of your greatness.
 
Old December 1st, 2004 #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve B
That being said, I'm going to give Will an "atta boy" for most chickenshit post of the week. I being a notorious mangler of the English language would hate to have "Professor Williams" checking my Grammar. But then, he only checks xtians doesn't he!

Steve please don't feed Doc's fanciful notion that he is despised because he is a Christian. I despise him because he is a dysgenic, obnoxious ass who comes on this Forum to escape his fetid existence.
 
Old December 1st, 2004 #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Augustus Sutter
I thought you already were a college graduate. You stated in the "Doc Martin Mein Comrade" thread that you could not distribute the VNN Tabloid because you were afraid of the law and had to protect your hard won education.



WTF You are are worried about $16? Doc Martin a man who owns seven houses and keeps them empty so no minorities can move next door him is worried about $16k? There are so many questions about the great "Doc Martin" it's hard to keep track. Please help us. We want to understand the nature of your greatness.
From a preaching college which gets you a job preaching and not teaching college. A degree from KCU would land a job at KCU where I would like to teach college. However I would expect you would rather pay the Jew and get an edJewcation rather than go to an all white Christian college. That is ok you can remain with your Jewish brethren, I prefer to be around whites.

I donít have $75,000 laying around the house. I wonít go to college if I have to take out loans. Last time I went to college I had $5,000 in my pocket and more in the bank at home. Of course I donít sit in my house trembling in fear I actually get out and work and provide a decent living for my people. That is why I donít care about being an English major, I can pay someone a five spot to correct any grammatical errors I may have. That is about all a degree in English is worth. If the crash did come how many English teachers do you think would starve? They would be worthless and be flushed down the toilet with everyone else.
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Old December 2nd, 2004 #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Augustus Sutter
They could not teach you even the basic rules of writing in English.
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Old December 6th, 2004 #16
Abzug Hoffman
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Default Jerry Falwell's school sounds like it is full of jews

Baez, a jewish name; Green, a jewish name; Morris a jewish first name. I bet they pray for Israel at the start of class and then spend the rest of the time screwing the Christians' heads around.
 
Old December 10th, 2004 #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abzug Hoffman
Baez, a jewish name; Green, a jewish name; Morris a jewish first name. I bet they pray for Israel at the start of class and then spend the rest of the time screwing the Christians' heads around.
Baez is a Spanish surname, not a Jewish one

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